it needs another frame where he has a big smile on his face and he says At Last! we can have some peace and safety to live our lives however we want! Thanks for the smile and laugh Geri and Regina. Yep! They will get their one world government, the freedom to sin as they will, evil will prevail but for a brief 7 yrs, and boy are they going to be surprised when we ALL return with the King of Kings, smack! :yahoo: Thank you, Regina. That was an excellent youtube from Andy Woods :good: Ok to recap it all: ”He is coming like a thief in the night” - is that the rapture? Nope “No man knows the day or the hour” - does that apply to the rapture? Nope. Instead its in reference that the unbelievers living in the tribulation they will be clueless in knowing the time or program of God. So they will be shell shocked when He suddenly appears at the 2nd Coming because they won’t be expecting Him. ”One will be taken and the other left” ... this does NOT apply to the saved being raptured out but pertains to the lost during the end of the tribulation taken out for the Judgment of the goats. Only the tribulation believers (sheep) who made it to the end ... will enter the millennium kingdom. Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are all about the 2nd coming advent and NOT the rapture at all. All Scripture is for us but not all Scripture is about us. I have 2 questions ... Luke 21 is also talking about the tribulation period but then there is verse 28 ... “And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.”. Is this pertaining to the rapture? :scratch: My other question is did Noah actually warn and witness to his generation while building the ark? Because Genesis 6:9 says “These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. (meaning his genes were not tampered with ... his family were still 100% human). Meanwhile it says there were giants walking about and I think there could have been centaurs - half man/half beast walking around. In Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed (demon seed) and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. So why would Noah witness to the people of his generation if they were all giants or part man/part beast? Or were some people still fully human? :feedback Good teaching Geri7. 2 Peter 2:5 says Noah was "a preacher of righteousness" I've always wondered how many people died during the flood and if they all went to hell even the children because of their mingled DNA I see there are so many conflicting ideas in this forum, yet it is interesting to see the both sides of the argument. As may believe in a RAPTURE, having an interest in a Rapture Forum, I see that there are some who have not linked former shadow EXAMPLES in the Bible with the times of the END. There are some who do not link examples of PAST occurrences as being a dress rehearsal for the END. I could be wrong in my view, but there are 3.5yrs that ELIJAH was dealing with Israel long ago. James 5:17. Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of THREE YEARS and SIX MONTHS. Malachi 4:5. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: Luke 9:30. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: After digressing, I believe the GREAT Tribulation is JUST the LAST half of the LAST 7 Years. In other words, the 42Months mentioned in Rev.11:1-3, is when the Holy City is DOWN-Trodden, 42 months before the 1260Day of 2 Witnesses have 1260 Days prophecy, and DIE 8 DAYS before the Resurrection and ADVENT occurring on a ROSH HASHANA Trumpet EVENT, being New Year of the 5784. (September 16th 2023) How do I come to 2023? We have BLOOD MOONS on FEAST days in 2014 & 2015, being the LAST TETRAD (4 BLOOD MOONS) - of which it is the 7th TETRAD that occurred in ISRAEL'S History! These TETRADS were WARNINGS that occurred when Israel was almost about to be "Birthed" 1948, and also when 6 Day War occurred when Jerusalem was UNITED - Ending Gentile Occupation as was Prophesied in Luke 21:24. (Google BLOOD MOONS) The Following year after the last TETRAD, was the START of 5777, - Which was the October 3rd 2016. I believe the TRIPPLE 7 was God's hint to say 7 FINAL years is Commencing! Thus we have TRUMP being Elected just AFTER Oct. 3rd 2016. (Till Sept. 16th 2023) Dan.12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. All the TIME MENTIONED in Daniel and Revelation HINGE on the Last 7 YEARS, which has 42 + 42Months. (2016 till 2023) - all but 2,300Evenings & Mornings - (1,150Days) relate to that 7 yrs. 42 Months Holy CITY is DOWN-TRODDEN (Holy City = Rev.21:2 - NOT Old but NEW Jerusalem) New Jerusalem is the BRIDE/FIRST Fruits(Not HARVEST)/ Woman Taken with Eagle Wings (Rev.12:6) 1,260Days Before Resurrection. NOT First Fruits of those who "Slept". 1 Cor.15:20. But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. WHO are these who are DWELL in HEAVEN? (While [Name Removed by Moderator] Continues 42 Months) - is it not the Chosen/Elected WOMAN Bride who is RAPTURED - For WHOM the DAYS were SHORTENED? Mark 13:20 .. but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. - For those NOT CHOSEN? - Inhabiting EARTH and of sea? BLASPHEMY = Claiming to be GOD and FORGIVE our SINS? (Popes and Priests/Rabbi?) Matt.23:8. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren. Those who have NOT KNOWN of the DAY or HOUR? Matt.25:12. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Olaf, I agree that the three and a half years Elijah withheld the rain is significant to the Tribulation period, possibly a big indicator of Elijah being one of the two witnesses in Revelation 11. I will also agree that the final 42 months are "great" tribulation, as echoed in Matthew 24:21. I'm not sure it is always used as a technical term, rather than general, but it is perhaps more accurate to refer to Daniel's 70th week and the latter half as being "the end," as that is how Jesus characterized it. I would place the ministry of the two witnesses in the first 42 months of Daniel's 70th week, which has definitely not begun yet, as there must be a "midst of the week" or 1,260 days in which sacrifices are conducted, before they are halted by the "prince that shall come." Thus we have TRUMP being Elected just AFTER Oct. 3rd 2016. (Till Sept. 16th 2023) Dan.12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. This does not say that TRUMP is of GOD, but he STANDS for land of Israel. But no, Trump is not "Michael" the Archangel. The time of Jacob's Trouble has not commenced. We are still watching the prelude to the coming Tribulation. All the TIME MENTIONED in Daniel and Revelation HINGE on the Last 7 YEARS, which has 42 + 42Months. (2016 till 2023) – all but 2,300Evenings & Mornings – (1,150Days) relate to that 7 yrs. The 2,300 Evenings and Mornings have already been fulfilled long ago and have nothing to do with future events. We are not yet in Daniel's 70th week. 42 Months Holy CITY is DOWN-TRODDEN (Holy City = Rev.21:2 – NOT Old but NEW Jerusalem) Yes, OLD Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem will never be trodden down by unbelievers and is an actual city, not symbolic of the Church. We just live there, eventually. New Jerusalem is the BRIDE/FIRST Fruits(Not HARVEST)/ Woman Taken with Eagle Wings (Rev.12:6) 1,260Days Before Resurrection. NOT First Fruits of those who “Slept“. The Woman who flees into the wilderness is the remnant of Israel, not the Bride of Christ. Please refrain from naming candidates as the Antichrist or the False Prophet. We don't permit that sort of speculation, and I will remove that comment. Indeed we can only study to show ourselves approved. However, rightly dividing the Word of God has often been met with presumption in many teachings. The second coming indeed will be calculated. But all the scriptures referencing the Rapture are all open ended and ambiguous. It still remains to be seen what axiom of priority the Lord will use to arrive at the Rapture's date. Truly, it has already been chosen and set for one moment in time, even before the foundations were laid. That said, God alone is privy to that exact moment. We are encouraged with the words that when we see such and such happen, we are look up for our redemption is near. That's about all we are promised. We can indeed be made aware that we are the last of days and we can sense the various spiritual seasons. I therefore still maintain the Lord might give His Church a divine disclosure or a specified advance warning with regards to the Rapture. Though I can't be dogmatic about that point, it certainly fits in nicely with God's previous dealings with men. It also seems to accommodate God's character and heart. But we are in the season and the 70 to 80 year generation of Israel's rebirth. Elijah was a type of Christ. He ministered for 3 1/2 yrs just as Christ did. Adding the 3 1/2 yrs of Tribulation preaching bring him to a seven year time of ministry. Truly on a prophetic level, the Rapture resets the clock for man's days upon this Earth system we presently abide in. After the Rapture many things can then be accurately calculated, for the Lord's prophetic word shall be fulfilled. Again following the Jewish tradition, once a man was released to secure his bride an entourage or wedding party with much noise and celebration would announce the bridegroom was on his way! This way the future bride was assured of her upcoming wedding. TR Its now March 1st and one day closer to spring. :yahoo: I still have high hopes for a spring or summer rapture ... if not, Carl Worline at 5 Doves, posted a convincing view that the rapture could occur on Feast of Trumpets ... especially THIS Feast of Trumpets. I guess it’s a wait and see. B-) Just happy the days are still passing quickly and it will be here before we know it. Meanwhile today I will be singing “We are marching to Zion beautiful beautiful Zion, marching upward to Zion that beautiful city of God!” :whistle: Biblical References to the Timing of the Rapture The timing of the rapture has been a mystery that has intrigued Christians for almost two millennia. Some Christians have such a strong aversion to any attempt to set a date that they see any such attempt as almost being akin to heresy. Other Christians feel compelled to not only watch but to diligently search the scriptures for any clues which the Lord may have given us. This latter group often cite the words of John given to us in the Book of Revelation: If therefore you shall not watch, I will come on you as a thief, and you shall not know what hour I will come on you (KJV). Rev 3:3. I make no apologies for being in this latter group. John seems to clearly say that if we watch we can not only know the year and the day but even the very hour. I would submit that Paul told us very clearly in 1 Corinthians as to what time of year to expect the rapture to occur: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Cor 15: 51-52. Paul says very clearly and directly that the resurrection of the dead, also known as the Rapture of the Church, will occur at the Last Trump (Trumpet). In the Bible, there are references to the First Trumpet, the Great Trumpet, and the Last Trumpet. The First Trumpet is Pentecost. The Great Trumpet is Yom Kippur. And, the Last Trumpet is the Feast of Trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets is one of the seven Jewish feast days, also known as moeds, or more properly moedim (plural). These are specific times in which the Bible us that God has an appointment with mankind. The Feast of Trumpets is the fifth of these seven appointments. Why are Jewish feast days significant to Christians? Technically, the Jews do not even believe that Jesus as the Messiah. The answer is that God declared the Jews to be His chosen people for all eternity. Jesus was a Jew. Jesus also told us that He came to the world for the Jews first and then for the Gentiles. Therefore, Jewish customs and beliefs are very important as we search for clues on rapture timing. After all, Jesus patterned the rapture after the customs and traditions of a Jewish wedding. Paul told us more about when to expect the rapture to take place in his letter to the Thessalonians: 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. 1 Thess. 4:15-18 Paul very clearly tells us that when Jesus comes for His Church in the rapture, we will hear the trumpet call of God. One of the most significant aspects of the Feast of Trumpets is the blowing of trumpets. This day is known to the Jews as the Day of the Blowing of Trumpets. It is also the only feast (moed) where the blowing of trumpets is a central theme. Paul also very clearly tells us that on the day when Jesus comes for His Church there will be a “loud command” (shout) with the voice of the archangel. The Feast of Trumpets is also known in Judiasm as Yom Teruah (The Day of Shouting and/or The Day of the Great Shout). The Feast of Trumpets is known in Judiasm as The Day of the Resurrection of the Righteous Dead. Isn’t the Day of the Resurrection of the Righteous Dead also the day of the rapture of the church? There are other scriptural references that are less specific but certainly seem to be speaking about the rapture of the Church. For example, Isaiah tells us: Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past. Is 26:20. NKJV The Feast of Trumpets is the only Jewish feast where the moon is hidden. The moon is an allusion and represents the Bride of Christ. Is it just a coincidence that the Feast of Trumpets is also known to the Jews as The Day of Hiding or The Day of Concealment? I think not. The seven Jewish Moedim are occurring in a specific historical sequence. The Feast of Trumpets is the fifth moed in the list and it is the next moed that is due to occur. The Feast of Trumpets is unique because there is no explicit reason given in the Torah for its observance, other than to “rest” and to sacrifice. It is the only moed that does not have a specific historical event (past or future) tied to it, yet it certainly has a lot of names in the Jewish community. Based upon my research and the research of others I have compiled the following list of Jewish names for the Feast of Trumpets. · Yom Teruah (The Day of Shouting). · The Feast Where Nobody Knows the Day or the Hour. · The Day of the Great Shout. · The Day of Awe. · The Day of the Blowing of Trumpets, or The Day of Trumpets. · The Hidden Day, The Day of Concealment, or The Day of Hiding (as in hiding the bride from the tribulation). · The Time of Jacob’s Trouble. · The Day of the Awakening Blast. · The Day of Judgment. · The Day of the Opening of Books. · The Day of Remembrance. · The Jewish New Year. · The Day of the New Moon · The Day of the Opening of Gates (As in the gates of heaven.). · Ha Kiddushin/Nesuin (The Wedding of the Messiah). · Ha Melech (Coronation, or Crowning, of the Messiah). · The Birthday of the Messiah. Let’s keep in mind that Judaism does not acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah. Not yet anyway. Therefore, I find any possible hint of a reference to the rapture of the church to be suspiciously significant. Some people look for the Rapture to occur on The Feast of Trumpets because Jesus said 4 times that “no man knows the day or the hours” of His return during His Olivet Discourse. These 4 locations are: · Matthew 24:36 · Matthew 24:42-44 · Matthew 24:50 · Matthew 25:13-15 In Jewish wedding tradition, it is customary to respond to the question of when the wedding will occur with “I do not know the day or the hour, only my father knows.” This is because the bride’s father sets the date of the wedding when he is satisfied that all things are ready. When the wedding day approaches the father gives the all-clear and the groom comes with a shout and a trumpet and takes his bride away for 7 days of rejoicing. In America, if you mention “turkey day” people will immediately know that you are talking about the holiday of Thanksgiving (which coincidentally just happens to be a major feat day in America). If you mention “The day of which no man knows the day or hour” to a Jew, he will immediately know that you are talking about the Feast of Trumpets. That is because the timing of the Feast of Trumpets is predicated on the first sighting of the new moon. For this reason, the Feast of Trumpets occurs over a two-day period. Nobody knows the day or hour it will begin until 2 reliable witness reports seeing it to the chief priests. The beginning of all other moedim is predicated on observing a full moon rather than a new moon This year (2020) the Feast of Trumpets begins at sundown in Jerusalem on Friday, September 18th at 6:42 PM (local time) and ends at sundown in Jerusalem on Sunday, September 20th at 6:39 PM (local time). Coincidentally, September 20, 2020, is also the day when the moon returns to the feet of Virgo for the 40th time since the Revelation 12 Sign. This period of time is 40 sidereal months. Numbers in the Bible are very important. Forty is the number for testing. For example, Jesus fasted for 40 days before starting His ministry. Moses and Elijah also fasted for 40 days in the desert. The Israelites wandered in the desert for 40 years before entering the Promised Land. The Bible tells us the Ezekiel laid on his right side for 40 days to bear the iniquity of Judah’s sins. Three of Israel’s most famous kings each ruled for 40 years – Solomon, David, and Saul. Goliath taunted the armies of Israel for 40 days before being killed by young David. God killed every living thing by raining on the earth for 40 days and 40 nights during the Great Flood. When God proclaimed judgment against Egypt, He said that Egypt would be desolate for 40 years. God gave Nineveh 40 days to repent or be destroyed. Israel was in captivity to the Philistines for 40 years. The spies that Moses sent to check on the Promised Land were there for 40 days. Speaking about Moses, he was on Mount Sinai for 40 days the first time he went up to get the ten commandments from God and again for 40 days the second time he went up the mountain. There are many other examples. In fact, the number 40 appears 159 times in the Bible. Perhaps God is trying to tell us something. Perhaps the Revelation 12 Sign, which occurred on the Feast of Trumpets in 2017, was a marker on God’s timeline telling us we had 40 sidereal months in which to repent before the church would be snatched away and taken through the open gates of heaven. Perhaps the Revelation 12 Sign was God's warning to mankind that we were only 40 sidereal months away from the time of Jacob's Trouble (also known as the Great Tribulation). And perhaps we are now in that period of time known as the Beginning of Sorrows which immediately precedes the rapture. Carl Worline - Fair Use - Let’s keep in mind that Judaism does not acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah. Not yet anyway. Therefore, I find any possible hint of a reference to the rapture of the church to be suspiciously significant. Certainly Rabbinic Judiasm has rejected a Yeshua/Jesus as their Messiah. However, a number of their customs and traditions are very curious. For example in a Passover Seder, there is a tradition of the Afikomen: https://www.rockofisrael.org/2019/03/28/the-afikomen-messianic-meaning/ I think perhaps the 144,000 and the Two Witnesses will point out these customs and traditions to the unbelieving Jewish people during the Tribulation. (Primarily the Word of God and the Holy Spirit will draw them, of course.) God will use many diverse means to draw people to Himself. Dreams, visions, etc. Of course we need to use discernment and test the spirits always. Indeed we can test the spirits of people. There are no shortage of well meaning and Christ loving saints. That said, their spirits may be right but their words, teachings and doctrines may not always be on the mark! This is why we have to run everything against the scriptures, just as the Bareans! Be led by the Spirit always, and always in prayer. False doctrines and teachings aside, not every word is for all, all the time! Therein is the rub for chasing after teachers and teachings! Again, not every word offered is for every believer. This is where discernment is needed. TR
Some seem to think that MOSES was NOT a companion of Elijah, in the time the 2 witnesses were to Prophesy. WHAT makes this Theory wrong ... if this DUO were ALSO the TWO who, just before the PASSOVER happened, came to encourage Christ to go THROUGH with His Plan to DIE for us?
31. Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
Some say it would have to be Enoch, as we were DESTINED to die Hebrew 9:27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: ...ONCE to DIE isn't to DIE once.
- What about those raised, by Elijah and Yahusha? Some say that it was JOHN - the one who wrote Revelation, as they have no record of HIS death. Rev.10:11. And he said unto me, Thou must PROPHESY AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
This does not say that TRUMP is of GOD, but he STANDS for land of Israel.
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward THEY that [SLEEP?] are Christ's at his coming. [2nd ADVENT/Resurrection]
Rev.12:12. Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev.13:5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.
6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
9. And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.
13. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
