Is not Heaven large enough or grand enough for the saints? If Heaven were polluted by the rebellion of the angels, then have we not also polluted the Earth by our rebellion? I can easily see therefore a new Heaven. And even with both a new Heaven & Earth why does God choose to keep us on Earth and then make His abode here as well? what say ye??? TR I believe the earth hast to be burnt up with fire to get rid of all the demonic idol statues and worship groves sites .... Easter Island, Egyptian Sphinx and Pyramids, Stonehedge, Mexican Mayan Chicten Itza, etc. and what about all the underground alien junk at Dulce Base, Area 51, etc. Plus areas like the Grand Canyon is the result of the flood ... so I’m sure the Lord wants to restore the earth back to the way it was before the flood judgment. The 2nd heaven hast to be destroyed because that’s probably the current abode of the demons. There are creepy Sphinx statues and Pyramids on Mars, the moon has some weird statues going on there as well. It’s a given the other planets probably have the same. We are here on the earth right now to be tested for our faith and love for the Lord. I think the restored earth will be for the O.T. believers, those who get saved during the trib and millennium. And heaven will be for the church. But I think we will be able to visit those believers on the earth and they with us in heaven. Heaven often referred to the sky/atmosphere in biblical days, so I could see it still just being a "new Earth." Wherever Heaven (God's throne) actually is (I assume in the final dimension, of which we operate in the 4th) I don't think that will get remade at all. …25In the beginning You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. 26They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing You will change them, and they will be passed on. 27But You remain the same, and Your years will never end. Psalm 102:25-27 In addition to the idea that the present heavens and earth are contaminated by sin, there is also the element of them being perishable. Maybe it has something to do with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and the law of entropy. In this universe, everything ages and deteriorates with time. The coming age might have different laws of nature, in which things do not grow old and fall apart. It's true that "heaven" can mean several different things, as there is more than one heaven. But I lean toward the idea of a totally new universe, as sin has affected everything that exists. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Romans 8:19-23 The "whole creation" must involve more than this world. We don't really know the extent to which every material thing is connected; however, sin caused nature to be altered. I can easily see the damage being so far ranging that a complete overhaul of the material space/time universe would be required to correct the problem. Question: Did God create the rest of the universe in a state of chaos and ruin, with stars exploding and planets being bombarded by gigantic rocks, or was their condition altered at some point? I don't know the final answer on that one. Note that verse 21 says "also," indicating that the "creature" is broader than the children of God; it involves the whole creation. Well said David and I agree. But with regards to the third Heaven in particular. We shall ascend into His abode (Heaven) and reside there for a time. Then we are told that God will make His abode with and amongst men. Why this change of God's abode? And what does this reveal to us about God's heart?! :wacko: TR In the temple, there were divided areas where people could come near to God. Only the High Priest could enter into the Most Holy place, and that once a year. The curtain of separation was torn down at the death of Christ, meaning all could now draw near to the presence of God. The New Jerusalem is a sort of "Holy of Holies" in itself. We are told there is no temple within it (Rev. 21:22-27) in the end. So the New Jerusalem and the throne of God being on Earth means there will be no restriction to the access of God. It's all holy to the Lord at that point, and no more "secular" places. What are your thoughts on where the Great White Throne Judgement occurs - on the earth or in heaven? And do you think the church will be there observing it? It’s certainly going to be hard to watch that sad day(s) if we are. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 20:11 Sounds as if it's in some other space than heaven or earth. Will we witness it? I believe so, and there will be some participation from those who are present. 41The men of Nineveh will stand at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now One greater than Jonah is here. 42The queen of the south will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and now One greater than Solomon is here. Matthew 12:42 (Please check out Rita rule #4 in the Rules drop down above)
