I used to follow John McArthur quite closely. I listened to his radio program, bought his study bible and read some of his books. I quite enjoyed the "Battle for the Beginning" and his book on the book of Revelation. I do like the fact that he is pre Trib which is unusual for a Calvinist. Most of the ones I have met or read are Amillenial. Now, I always knew he was a Calvinist but he seemed so low key about it that it didn't bother me at the time. However the more I studied Calvinism (mostly because a good friend of mine is a staunch Calvinist), the more I saw how it is a spiritually dangerous theology. Now that I have seen how Calvinism twists terms and Bible passages to fit their warped theology, I can't unsee it and I saw it in John McArthur's books and sermons. I like to think of him as a sneaky or stealth Calvinist. I have also seen it's destructive side as it torments my staunch Calvinist friend with whether she is truly and elect or not. She is not living a victorious life and it has lead to fear and depression. I reassure her with passages like Ephesians 1:13, 1 Corinthians 1-4, John 10:28 that her faith is secure and that she has eternal life but she always seems to circle back to am I doing enough to demonstrate that I am an elect? Am I bearing enough fruit? It is heart wrenching to watch and I strongly feel that she will never get out of that downward spiral until she renounces Calvinism. I do hate being a grumpy old man that is always criticizing this or that. There is a lot of deception and false teaching out there and it is wearying. I long for the day when we'll be with Jesus and all the deception and false teaching will just burn away. (Including any incorrect beliefs that I may have.) *Sigh* Maranatha, Lord Jesus! :prayer-hands: Just to sum up what I posted on this thread. I’m not here to debate … everyone has free will … I just want to make clear please don’t judge everyone who says they are calvin or “part” calvin that they are all heading to hell. The reason I’m still saying I’m “part” calvin (and I don’t associate with the tulip flower stuff). I’m looking ONLY at the Bible verses in the King James Bible that deal with election, for the elect sake, chosen, selected, predestinated, “ordained before believing” etc. you can’t ignore the numerous verses associated with these words. Maybe other Bible versions removed the words? :unsure: But my King James Bible clearly shows them and I can’t help but see those words popping out at me! And we can all agree God has chosen the Jews to be His special people He chose Jacob over Esau He chose David over his other brothers to be King He chose His disciples He also said …. I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And at the same time … He does harden hearts … He did that to pharaoh … “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth” (Romans 9:18) And with our human minds we can’t say “well this is unfair” because …. “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:8,9) “The secret things belong unto the LORD our God; but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law” (Deut 29:29). Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor? (Romans 9:18-21) ———————————- As far as “Lordship Salvation” being labeled as Grace + Works? This is just puzzling to me and I need to look into this further. :scratch: All I know is the first time I prayed to Jesus for forgiveness of my sins I also asked Him to come into my heart and take over my life and be my personal Lord and Savior. So how could this be “works + grace”? When I was trusting fully in His finished work at the Cross and His shed blood and I surrender to Him that day! Before that prayer in the kitchen … I was in catechism class and the nuns had us all meet in the main church building … some visiting arch bishop from Rome was guest speaker and had a statue of Mary. He wanted us all to bow down to that statue and do the sign of the cross and either kiss or touch it. When I approach that idol I saw not only a dirty foot from all the handling but a few toes were missing. :mdrmdr: I thought to myself how nasty so I barely touched it. Then they handed out these ugly felt scapulars and said if you ever remove this necklace you will go to hell. One boy raised his hand and said what if you’re in the shower or bathtub can you remove it? And the answer was NO! So in fear I doubled knotted mine. :mdrmdr: When my mom came to pick me up she asked what did I learn today? My usual response back was “nothing” but this time I said I need to wear this! She was a new believer and said “WHAAAT? You take that thing off right now” I said “NO I can’t or I will go to hell!” She was amazed that I was arguing back at her because I never did … so she knew I was ready to hear the Truth. And it was the catalyst for her never to return back there and to seek a real Bible church. So in the kitchen she got out her Catholic Bible and said do you believe this is God’s Word. I said yes … it says so on the cover! Then she showed me John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-9 …“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” My response … they lied to me! I was so angry and said please get the scissors so I can take this off. Then I prayed to Jesus. Afterwards I felt joy, happiness and I finally had assurance of heaven! I was 7 years old and understood about Salvation is a Free Gift and not about works. And I’m a firm believer that once you get saved … you will see an instant change (even though you’re still growing in knowledge) and you will no longer want to do the things you once did and your unsaved friends will soon not want to associate with you because you will no longer have the same common interests. Then as a teenager I heard a message about dedicating your life to Christ. So I responded to that invitation call. I consider that a promise to the Lord … that I will try my best to remain faithful and to follow/serve Him in anyway. I didn’t know what my gift was because I can’t sing or play any musical instruments but I later found out it was witnessing to others since it was easy. But since Jesus expects everyone to do that (Great Commission) … that had me not thinking it was a gift. So is dedicating your life considered “works based” and a forbidden thing to do? :unsure: Hi Arthur, I have come across several people online who were in MacArthur's Grace Community Church in California who have told pretty much the same sad, tragic stories of their assurance of salvation being stripped away and destroyed by JM's justification by works teachings and books. I don't buy into any of the Calvinist endless predestination/election mind games. From my experience with them, they act like they have some special insight into the mind of God, and they are obsessed with it. So they twist scripture around to fit their belief system. Are they trying to play God? sometimes I wonder. God is all knowing and sees the end from the beginning, and he foresees who all will come to faith--and I just leave it at that. Also, to some Calvinist grace and the gift of salvation is probationary and can be revoked if the person does not follow through with good works. This is wrong! God's free gift of eternal salvation is permanent and is irrevocable, no matter what. Also, and this may be at the root of the problem, some Calvinists don't define grace as meaning God's unmerited favor. They define grace a some supernatural substance that can be lost and regained. This sounds a lot like the RCC teachings on grace. Makes you wonder what all got drug over from Catholic doctrine by the Reformers. Someone once said this and I believe it. That Christ offers the free gift of eternal salvation to anyone who will just take it by faith from his nail pierced hands. lt is permanent and one can never loose his salvation because of sins or lack of good works. Salvation is all by grace from beginning to end. Yes, we are saved unto good works and our lives should change for the better, but we are still sons of God even if we don't live up to God's wonderful loving sonship and still sin or lack good works. Paul tells us that when Christ died we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and we are raised with Him clothed in His imputed righteousness. God sees us in the righteousness of his Son. This says that our eternal salvation is accomplished and finished; it's a done deal and our eternal life is forever secure in Christ. This should always be the Easter message when we share the gospel; this irrevocable free gift that God offers and will never take back and that we can never loose, no matter what. Now, I am sure some will disagree with this, but I stand by what I have said and believe. Phil Depending on who gets the glory I guess?! But that's how televangelists and false teachers begin! By creating a reputation for themselves and the believing their own press and being impressed by their own accomplishments! But whatever is done unto God and for the kingdom will stand! Even if they may not! So should we ask God if He is a calvinist?! TR So is dedicating your life considered “works based” and a forbidden thing to do? Of course not!! Rather it's our reason for being born again, Geri: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10, hard on the heels of 2:9 - ...not of works... !!) :yes: For the simple minded as myself, I indulge in simple pleasures and a simple faith! I'm with Him, Jesus! TR I think the bottom line on Bible teachers is that they are not perfect. We really need the Lord not the Bible teacher. The Lord won’t let us down. He does deserve all glory because that is the truth. Have not come across a perfect teacher yet even though they are serving the Lord probably as best they can. Geri, I loved your testimony!!?? Agreed! We are told to follow, not try and second guess His every move! TR Geri, I want to assure you that we love you as a sister saint in Christ bound for Heaven in the Rapture, even though I may disagree with you on some non essential points. Actually I may be a bit Calvinist myself and don't even realize it. Your experience in the Catholic church reminds me of mine; all their legalism and working your way to Heaven doctrines and dogma they demand. They try to pressure their members into venerating Mary with roseries (I think they are actually worshiping her) and telling people if they wear this brown scapular that she will protect them from ever going to hell.. It was like a prison break to freedom when I got saved and left the RCC and never looked back! I remember telling my wife after I was saved that we are saved just by what Christ did for us on the cross. :bible She, still being Catholic said, "Well, the church (meaning the RCC) says that we can't know that and we have to also live good life to be saved" I am pretty sure she is saved now and no longer participates in the catholic church. To me, when I was in the RCC , it was like trying to live under the scribes and pharisees who placed impossible demands on their flocks. What joy and freedom I found when I believed the message of salvation in the Bible. My Catholic days are only like a bad dream. :amen: Ditto, also from an ex catholic! TR
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