The timing of the O.T. Saints get their new bodies & will they have job duties

Regarding when the Old Testament Saints get resurrected/transformed.  I thought they already had at the resurrection that took place after Jesus's crucifixion:

Matthew 27:51-53 New King James Version (NKJV)
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

:scratch:

37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.  Hebrews 11:40

I'm not certain about the event in Matthew 27, whether it was an early wave of the first resurrection or if it was a Lazarus type raising from the dead.  It isn't mentioned again in the Bible.  But the verse in Hebrews says the Old Testament faithful have to wait on us.

Thank you for your reply, David.  It is an interesting topic and I have never heard it preached.  My first thought though is the promise to us, the church, is fulfilled at the cross, even though the church itself did not begin to exist until the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost.  But in that fact that the promise to the church is fulfilled at the cross, perhaps it was that the OT saints had to wait until Christ's crucifixion and resurrection until they were resurrected.

Another thought I have about this resurrection is that the population of the world had not exploded until relatively recently and so that one was not overly large.  Think of the one that is to come at the time of the rapture and how huge it will be, especially if some come in to the cities and are seen by many like the last time!  I've also got to think about all those incorruptible Catholic saints lying in state, that might be walking the streets at the resurrection.  If this happens, surely it will help spark the huge revival that happens during the tribulation.  Interesting to contemplate!

Do Raymond, you have forgotten that Paul teaches there are three orders of resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The three orders are:

1/ Christ the firstfruit, which has been fulfilled in 32 AD.

2/ They that are Christ's at his coming. "They" are the old and new testament saints, both are waiting for their resurrected body at Christ's coming which is rapture.

3/ Then come the end, which is the end of tribulation when Jesus returns with us to earth. John saw this resurrection of tribulation saints and wrote it down in Revelation 20.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

David W. Roche, you said it yourself!

" The First Resurrection......All the RIGHTEOUS EVER to be raised are included in it "

So tell me, if that is the case, where do you fit in those believers who are martyred during the so-called '7 years'?

Are they not to be counted among the righteous then?

If all the OT saints + the so-called 'church age' saints are resurrected at the 'pre-trib rapture' 7 years earlier, which is considered as The 1st Resurrection, which category should the 'trib saints/martyrs' fall under?

Or is there a 2nd resurrection of the righteous for them? Where will they be included? Are those who die in the 7 years not righteous?

Pls forgive me, but your statement is an oxymoron.

David, you can't say that The 1st Ressurrection is not limited to a single event. That is stretching it.

The 1st resurrection includes everybody spanning over 60 centuries, from the time of the patriachs, up til those who die at the end, called the martyred saints of Rev.

2nd Thessalonians says that at the 2nd coming, ALL will be resurrected. Those in the ground & those who are still alive.

Secondly, the Bible says in Rev 21:4 that when we finally see Him, He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

Read that again. It says no more death! All these things occur immediately, once Christ is revealed to us at the 2nd coming.

It is amazing that you can claim that death will still occur in a fantasy 'mil kingdom', when we can already see God walking among us?

You mean to say that God is powerless to prevent death, & that sin still exist AFTER he has revealed Himself to us?

And it needs another 1000 years before everything bad can be totally eliminated?

The imaginary 'millennial kingdom' is a jumbled mess of resurrected saints, men with fleshly weak bodies that are capable of dying & God living among both types of men, who revert to temple sacrifices once again, because God's death on the cross wasn't somehow sufficient, so we have to go back to the mosaic laws of animal sacrifices. See how truncated it all sounds?

Sadly, your chronology of all the events is wrong. Which brings me to your 3rd point :

"Yes, there are a thousand years separating Armageddon and the final Gog/Magog invasion"

My friend, Armageddon & the final Gog/Magog invasion are NOT separated by 1000 years because they are the one & the same war.

These are not 2 different battles. Satan does not need to be defeated twice.

You mean Satan gets whacked so utterly completely, at Armageddon & is then thrown into prison for 1000 years, only to be let out again to be whacked??!!

Where is the logic? He is pulverised one & only one time. Then it's game over.

Let me summarize Revelation 19:11-21 :

- eyes are a flame of fire
- on His head are many diadems
- a robe dipped in blood
- MOUTH COMES A SHARP SWORD, so that with it He may STRIKE DOWN THE NATIONS
- assemble for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.
- the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the LAKE OF FIRE which burns with brimstone

Now look at Rev 20:9 :

- And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But FIRE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN and CONSUMED THEM.
- And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown.

QUESTION : Is the sharp sword that proceedeth out of God's mouth, the same fire that came down from heaven?

QUESTION : What is the definition for the camp of saints? And the beloved city?

Consider all the language of symbolism that is contained in the last book of the Bible. That includes the meaning of 1000 years.

Revelation is the most symbolic book in the whole Bible.

Many of the verses on the Gog/Magog war & Armageddon are 'recursive parellelism'. From Ezekiel to Revelation.

Put the verses for 'Harmageddon' & the 'Gog/Magog war' into 2 separate columns side by side & you will see it.

You are seriously mistaken about many things.

Hi 2ndcoming,

Christians who are living today CAN also become the tribulation saints of Rev 20:4, if Christ's 2nd coming is right at the end, & not 7 years earlier. So there's no issue there. I can quote Rev 20:4 to support my view as well.

However, you will have a problem with your eschatology, if you split Christ's 2nd coming into 2 events which are 7 years apart.

In your order :

1/ Christ the firstfruit, which has been fulfilled in 32 AD.

I agree. Christ went up first.

2/ They that are Christ’s at his coming. “They” are the old and new testament saints, both are waiting for their resurrected body at Christ’s coming which is rapture.

So my question to you is, when do the tribulation saints get their resurrected bodies, based on your chronology?

And which Christ's coming are you referring to, if there's only ONE EVENT of the 2nd coming?

You pointed me to 1 Cor, but it only shows 2 orders. Not 3. Read carefully :

v 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Verse 23 is pretty clear that there are only 2 orders. Not 3.

The 2 orders are :

1) Christ (2000 years ago)
2) AFTERWARD They that belong to Christ.

That's it!

No where does it say Christ, followed by church age believers & then followed by those who died in the 7 years tribulation.

You yourself said 'They = OT + NT saints'. So which category do the trib saints fall under? NT + 7 years? A 3rd category?

Do Raymond, this is your question: "So my question to you is, when do the tribulation saints get their resurrected bodies, based on your chronology?"

I have already stated in my post. Here's the answer for you.

3/ Then come the end, which is the end of tribulation when Jesus returns with us to earth. John saw this resurrection of tribulation saints and wrote it down in Revelation 20. This the third and the final resurrection in the three phases of "First Resurrection".