Do not get me wrong, I hope all children go to heaven. I also know for a fact the Holy Spirit entered my life at 8, I stop using the Lords name in vain in my life My life changed drasticly I had a reoccurring dream I was in my basement I heard lots of noise if I looked it was Satan. this happened several times till in my dream I keep saying God is stronger, I did not look and the dreams ended that night. Just my story, my life was much better. Okay, so if you're an annihilationist, you must believe that after a sinner dies and the body returns to dust, God will raise up from the dead those who rejected Him, and then annihilate them in the lake of fire. What purpose would that serve? They're already gone. And if their spirits are to cease existing, why not do that at the point of death? I'm having trouble understanding that line of thinking. Yep, the annihilationist belief sure sounds oxymoron. It sounds like they are encouraging people to sin because they won’t be held accountable since their body will eventually cease to exist. :wacko: The dilienation made is man is body, soul and spirit. When the body dies, his/her soul and spirit still exist. Annihilation states that the full trinity of man is destroyed! The scriptures fully teach that damnation is eternal. But is this just for demons?! Knowing God's goodness, some people believe that God will ultimately relent and stop eternal damnation for humans. But this is a catch 22 for a God who creates and doesn't un-create! I'm sure the argument could easily be made that one day in Hell could seem like an eternity!!! TR Youngs Literal Translation 18 and receive the kingdom do the saints of the Most High, and they strengthen the kingdom unto the age, even unto the age of the ages. Daniel 7:18 and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name. Revelation 14:11 If God puts the wicked there, it is because there is no other place in the universe for them. Neither would the ungodly be at home in the presence of God. Same expression, different groups. Why would the saints receive the kingdom for "ages of ages" or eternity, and with the lost have the same words mean "temporarily"? I've also thought the same thing David. If the Lord keeps His promise for the saints to enjoy the glories of Heaven for eternity, why would He default on His promise of eternal damnation?! In a nutshell Annihilationists, seem to be looking for an emotional escape hatch! Sadly, those who know the Lord and His ways, should not try to rewrite the scriptures to assuage their injured feelings! Again, what sets certain Christians apart from one another is simple IMHO. Those that accept the Lord on His terms, and those that struggle with Lord and His ways! TR Just a small thread jack... any ideas of where the Lake of Fire will be located? Will it be the sun since we don’t need it anymore? Or the black hole “bottomless pit”? Or is it in the center of the earth? Or _____? You shouldn't have trouble in understanding that line of thinking at all, for the Bible says, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad." - Romans 2:16 "Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment" - Heb 9:27 "The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds. " - Rev 20:13 The due process must be meted out : resurrect the wicked dead ----> judge them (let them know their crimes) ----> punishment which ends with annihilation If their spirits were to cease existing at the point of death, then step 2, 'judgment', would have to be skipped. That would make God unjust. You should know this. So i don't understand the point that you're trying to get at. Annihilationism is not an oxymoron. It's scriptural. The presumption that annihilation encourages people to sin is simply outrageous. We know that there will be a resurrection to judgement, even after the body dies. The concept of annihilation does not give one carte blanche. There's no need to threaten a sinner with burning in unending torment, if the Bible doesn't say that. In fact, the Bible is being very upfront : If we obey God, we will be given eternal life. If we don't follow His ways, no eternal life. The sinner will not get to live in the next life! That is why, after they are resurrected & judged accordingly, they will be burnt up. They will perish. I believe there will be different degrees of punishment(don't ask me how), according to the severity of their sins, before they're terminated completely in the fire. Again, we have to realize the gravity of not being handed the opportunity to live forever. It is indeed the most severe punishment. Can you imagine that? The million dollar question is, how much do we really want to lay hold of eternal life, after this life is over? Most want their best life now. Firstly, i think that we need to establish the premise that only God possesses immortality. This is very important. Then it makes it so much easier to understand. "He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen"-1 Timothy 6:16 No one possesses immortality, until His Spirit is given to us. Therefore, the unbeliever doesn't possess immortality. No Holy Spirit, no eternal life. Simple. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. " - Ezekiel 18:20 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting life." - These verses definitely refer to a spiritual death called the 2nd death, because everybody including even Christians, will die a physical death. All of us have experienced the death of someone. What does 'death' look like to you? The person doesn't speak, eat, move, etc. The deceased simply know nothing. Likewise, when the 2nd death occurs, the individual will also cease to exist, after being resurrected & judged. Death means death. The cessation of life. It can't mean 'eternal life' in hell burning non-stop. So, no, God has not 'defaulted on His promise of eternal damnation'. Just that your definition of 'eternal' is very different. We were never created with immortality/indestructible spirit. Not even Adam! "Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and LIVE FOREVER—" - Gen 3:22 That's why an angel had to be assigned to guard the tree. "...he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life." - Gen 3:24 Why even bother guarding the tree, if Adam already possessed immortality in the 1st place? "Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? " - Ezekiel 18:23 God doesn't take pleasure in seeing even the unbeliever get destroyed, for life is precious indeed. That is why He sent His Son. But we have the freewill to choose death over eternal life instead. There will be many who refuse to follow His way, preferring the broad way. So in His mercy, He will snuff them out. I think that you claiming, "Annihilationists, seem to be looking for an emotional escape hatch!" is a bit too far. If it's scriptural, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of annihilation. Sometimes, it's very hard to give up long-held doctrines. For instance, consider these 4 verses: "It will not be quenched— day or night. Its smoke will ascend FOREVER. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again." - Isaiah 34:10 "And again they shouted: “Hallelujah! "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL fire." - Jude X:XX So, are the fires still burning today in these cities after a lapse of a few thousand years? "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." - Mal 4:3 The above verse is the most damning. The righteous shall walk over ashes. Ashes are their residual. Something to ponder : Which is the worst punishment? 20 years incarceration? Life-time imprisonment? Or the death penalty? Which would you prefer? I'm sure you'll agree that termination of life is the worst form of punishment! Your right to live, has been taken away from you. You said, "...those that struggle with the Lord and His ways!" In all honesty, I would actually struggle very much if annihilation wasn't the Lord's way! Even as fallen men, our courts of law, dish out punishment in proportion to the crime committed. What more a good God? Would we not expect Him to do the same? God is just & fair. This much we agree. But burning a person for an infinite period, for crimes committed over a finite period of just 70-80 years, does not reflect the true nature of a loving God. You are in effect, attacking the very character of God & misrepresenting Him unfairly. You portray a different God to the world. A sadistic & cruel God. Nothing like the loving God who would even die for us on a tree, so that we may get to live! Sadly, most miss the point. A prison is called a 'correctional facility'. Why? Because it's for the purpose of rehabilitation. What is the point, of punishing a person on & on without end, & without the possibility of regaining freedom in the future? Is it for corrective purposes? Annihilation = eternal punishment. The termination of existence is eternal in its consequence. Bible doesn't say eternal 'punishing'. The wicked will be burned up, not burning forever non-stop in an unquenchable fire. "Who shall be punished with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" - 2 Thess 1:9 Note: destruction is past tense. Can you imagine that in contrast to eternal life, an unbeliever/sinner is not afforded the opportunity to live on? Their chance at 'living' is forfeited forever. Never again will they be eating, drinking, enjoying, laughing, playing, learning, etc. What can be worse than that?! As for you saying, 'should not try to rewrite the scriptures to assuage their injured feelings!' & 'what sets certain Christians apart from one another is simple IMHO. Those that accept the Lord on His terms, and those that STRUGGLE...' Errm.....
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the SECOND death." - Rev 21:8
The smoke from her goes up for EVER & EVER.” - Rev 19:3 (Babylon reference)
