He believes Rev 3:10 is talking to the Church or Philadelphia not the church in regards to the rapture. Its been hard to hear his series on the book of Revelations. It dont even really understand the pre-wrath position. Were in Wrath Now Lol Pre-wrath is basically the belief that the Church will have to endure the first half of the Tribulation experiencing the wrath of the Antichrist but not the wrath of God. There is no blessed hope in that scenario. Christ's Bride still gets beaten up. :agree the believer is ALREADY vexed to the gills with every day trials ... what more do these pre-wrath people want? I never knew what “pre-wrath” meant until Yohanan just summed it up ... “they are expecting the AC to beat them up”. Are they bored and looking for more drama? Or perhaps life is still good for them ... and if that is the case ... I would seriously question if they are truly saved because the enemy is on a rampage against the true Church. Do you see a pattern in the particular Bible version these pre-wrath people use? I wonder if the newer versions are removing and/or changing words and its causing confusion for them to understand the sequence of events? :unsure: My pastor will say that no one at Dallas seminary believes in pre wrath but believes in the pretribulation rapture. Its just odd. Pre Wrath is not biblically sound. Another name for it is the 3/4 Trib Rapture. In the old Testament, it is made very clear that the whole Tribulation is God's Wrath. Not just the tail end of it. What it all boiled down to is that they think we need to be cleaned and purged. It's backdoor works based salvation. Absolutely! I think life in general is hard enough without the coming wrath. And you're correct, it's ALL God's wrath. I've heard some describe themselves as "Mid-week" rapturists. They believe the 69th week ended with Jesus baptism and that Jesus ministry fulfilled the first half of the 70th week. They say Daniel 9:27 is saying Jesus caused the sacrifice to be invalid in the middle of the 70th week when He was crucified. They believe the whole of the tribulation can only be three and one half years long and that the rapture occurs before that half-week restart. They believe God's wrath doesn't start until the sixth seal and that Christians will go through the first of the seals because it's not God's wrath, just severe "birth pangs" before the real tribulation. Those "mid week" rapturists are waaayyy confused.... :wacko: How could Jesus's ministry be the first 3.5 years if the week doesn't start until the covenant is confirmed by the AC? and the Abomination of Desolation is clearly defined as the AC declaring himself to be God in the temple, not just a regular historical sacrifice....and since Jesus Himself opens the seals, and judgment begins on earth in the form of the riders on the horses...and nearly a quarter of the earth dies due to war, disease and starvation....doesn't sound like birthpangs to me, sounds like wrath....which just gets worse of course- I certainly understand not feeling worthy, that is something that we all share is the feeling that we do not deserve the mercy and grace that the Lord has bestowed on us...that is why we are told is a gift of God, lest any man should boast (that he earned it). The Lord removes the righteous before judgement and because of our salvation, we are deemed righteous- historically this is true...from Noah to Lot and on to us. Thankfully the Lord makes good on His promises....we are not appointed to wrath, praise Jesus!! and soon, we are going Home where we belong with Him and our loved ones there. :rose: :flyup: :flyup: "Yohanan says Pre-wrath is basically the belief that the Church will have to endure the first half of the Tribulation experiencing the wrath of the Antichrist." Oh I hope not!!! 🙁 "Christ’s Bride still gets beaten up." I don't want to get beaten up. 🙁 
