Geri7, I heard your argument before. My belief is "no one knows the day and hour" has nothing to do with feast of trumpet. With modern technology, the exact hour and minutes of moon rise can be known ahead of time. I have attached a link. https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/israel/jerusalem?month=1&year=2020 Well, from the time I was 3 years old blessed to have a Christian mother, we never left the house without saying the 121 psalms, she taught me to watch and be ready. No date, every day. Looking up, all my life I could not count the days and nights to early morning looking for the blessed hope of His coming. Dates were never set or ever even discussed. Taught to watch and be ready, never upset or depressed as time has gone by, that's right near 60 years now. I spent a wonderful afternoon looking up in prayer this very afternoon. I'm so happy for and praise God for my brothers and sisters that have a good, as a healthy, a home, financially secure life. I however am disabled, in 24/7 pain even with epidurals for pain as well as major pain killers due to multiple severe health problems, no home of my own , a 12 by 12 room that cost almost half my hand to mouth finance , medical bills and supplement and medication taking a lot of the rest, what food I can afford. The grace and love of our Savior always meeting all my needs, living this way for 15 years now. I have been ridiculed by many for my faith, mainly due to what they see as my circumstance . Never angry never bitter, always knowing and believing God is in control. Godly wisdom VS mans interpretations, well after 60 years all I found I need is faith, if I need to have wisdom it comes from the Holy Spirit, God takes care of the rest as long as I let Him and stay out of His way with what my mind may think or come up with. When I get out of His word my mind can go all over. I try not to do that, I'm human I fail many times. As long as I keep my eyes and mind on Him thru His word given to us I find peace even in dire circumstance. All I know is His love, this world has nothing for me. I am content knowing my eternity will be with Jesus no pain no needs that are not supplied. Even now by no less than outright miracles I have had a roof over my head, great medical care, food, medications all I needed but not much by earthly standards. But this will pass and eternity with Christ is coming, maybe before I can post this ,maybe after I'm in the ground. But Gods wisdom has always been there taking care of me no matter mine or anyone's interpretation . My love in Christ to all here and all my family in and thru the blood of Jesus Christ. Do not worry He will be here right on time. YBIC Blake 2nd Coming, the problem is not that the commentaries might be "old." The problem is that you don't appear to listen to a n y o n e other than your own voice. Those commentaries often used sound reasoning and careful analysis to get to the meaning of the text. From what I can tell, you rely upon your own private interpretations and dismiss the thoughts of others as meaningless. This is an ongoing pattern in your posts. If you are going to make extraordinary claims, you need to have extraordinary evidence, not simply assertions based upon your personal preferences. Stating something arbitrarily does not change it from being an opinion to being established as factual. For example, you repeatedly reference the "Three Shepherds War," in spite of there being no mention of "war" in the passage. What evidence do you have of this being a war, when the identity of the three shepherds mentioned is undetermined? Please do not come back and tell us it has to be so because you can't see it being anything else. That is NOT evidence; that is unwarranted speculation. It is not exegesis; it is eisegesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis Exegesis (/ˌɛksɪˈdʒiːsɪs/; from the Greek ἐξήγησις from ἐξηγεῖσθαι, "to lead out") is a critical explanation or interpretation of a text, particularly a religious text. Traditionally the term was used primarily for work with the Bible; however, in modern usage biblical exegesis is used for greater specificity to distinguish it from any other broader critical text explanation. / ˌaɪ sɪˈdʒi sɪs / PHONETIC RESPELLING noun, plural eis·e·ge·ses [ahy-si- jee -seez] /ˌaɪ sɪˈdʒi siz/. an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text. If you wish to be taken seriously, you need to provide something more than empty assertions pulled out of your hat. It's fine to label a view as your private opinion which people can either take or leave. But it would really be appreciated if you could provide some linguistic, historical or logical basis for your claims. That is what helps move a discussion forward, rather than a dogmatic pronouncement of a private view that lacks adequate evidence. Example: Genesis 3:15 does hint the coming of Messiah and the church era. Only the first part is true. The church era is NOT even hinted at in the verse. The Church was not revealed until much later down the line. I'm not sure what words or expressions you are inferring as requiring a body of believers set apart in that verse. I can only see that as your personal interpretation. Yet I am without doubt you will come back with something no one else would have ever associated with it. Why would God place his appearance immediately after the betrayal and crucifixion of Jesus? When we come to interpret scripture, we should never put ourselves into boxes. And in this case, try to explain away scripture with historical events. Prophecy points events to future. If they have already happened, there should be historical evidence to confirm it. But in the case of Zechariah 11, three shepherds are cut off by God, God breaks a covenant with all the people, and the appearance of Anti Christ, we haven’t found their fulfillment in history. Why can’t we find them in future? Already covered. Sometimes the fulfillment of verses can be many, many years apart. It is only your bias which demands they happen in a particular time frame. Some events that were prophesied have already been fulfilled and are NOT future events. Some events have been lost to history and we might not have a clear understanding of how they were accomplished. That does not demand they refer to future events. Reasonable people understand this. Do you think the tribulation saints will be martyred globally around the same time ... perhaps in the spring since they will be holding palms in their hands up in heaven? Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Good point. I forgot about the 2nd Coming could fit on that day as well. Then Yom Kippur - Sheep/Goat judgment and Feast of Tabernacles starts to Millennium period? For years I just focused on Feast of Trumpets being the high watch rapture date. Then after hearing J.R. Church/Gary Stearman give the case for Pentecost ... I was happy to have 2 holidays a year vs just the 1 to get excited about. And now ... I’m for any high watch day if it means to get out of this world! B-) David, Before I post my though on scripture, I always do many research to see the historical background of the verses, and view many bible commentary to see their thought. When their view could not explain scripture, or sometimes rather weak, then I would stop following them. I don't like men's interpretation either unless they are strong enough to convince me with historical events and the background. We must study bible prophecy seriously and adopt a pragmatic attitude. If the scriptures and historical events do not cooperate, we must find another way for a better interpretation. The reasonable approach is to look for other scripture for help. Take three shepherds as an example, we can't find the word war, but we found Lebanon, Syria and Jordan in Psalm 83 and the 4th transgression. They fought against Israel. God says he shall send fire to Damascus, Tyre, Jordan, and Gaza in the 4th transgression. This line up with God's saying that he shall cut them off in one month. Combining all these prophecies, we can conclude that there will be a future war against Israel. The accomplice are Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, the three shepherds we find in Zechariah 11. And this war can only last one month. Verses are connected throughout bible. By connecting all the dots it gives a complete picture of what God intends us to know. This is God's mystery. Concerning the covenant God will break, I have researched on all the major covenants God has made with Israel. I found none of them can be broken by God. And your argument of the staff is rather weak, it doesn't satisfy me. When there is no evidence to support the event, we look at history for help. God did make a covenant with all the people before. It was in 32 AD through the blood of Jesus Christ. We call it a new covenant. Also, God calls the staff Beauty. What could appear Beauty to God in Judah and Israel time? Nothing. This is why God kept sending them prophets, to warn them. When we can't find any evidence in history to support the word Beauty, then equating Beauty as the church makes sense, because this is how the church is seen by God, Beauty. Back to studying prophecy and the attitude, I will not reject the explanations of others, if they make sense. Examples are Bill Salus Psalm 83, he is right to separate it from Ezekiel 38, Some people have suggested Anti Christ comes from Rome. Based on my research, they are also correct. You can't accuse me of not listening to other people's opinion. You always oppose to a new theory that I put forward. I think your objection is based on other people's opinion and the bible commentary. Are they 100% correct? Why don't you do your own research, and really think hard about the context? You should be like me, look else where in scripture to find the support and connection. Sometimes reading too much on bible commentary and other people's opinion can blind your thought. You should also be more open minded to different theory when the theory find supports from other scripture. All I did from Zechariah 11 is quoting other verses to support my view. Did you find me quoting any outside sources? The tribulation saints comes from all nations. Jesus says they shall be afflicted based on their faith. John saw the tribulation saints before Jesus opens the 7th seal. Since I believe the half hour silence represents the first half of tribulation, the saints in Revelation 7:9 occupy the first half tribulation. Consider the palms they hold. I don't see any specific meaning for now. I might site for instance the prophecy of Joel. For at the church's inception the Holy Spirit was given. People spoke in other tongues. But many agree that this was only partially fulfilled. With old men dreaming dreams and young men having visions this seems to always have been the case, also as it is today. And like much prophecy as David alludes to, some prophecies are fulfilled over long periods of time. Also likewise with much prophecy there is an immediate fulfillment but it is also understand that a secondary and more complete fulfillment is hidden somewhere in the future. Indeed it is prudent to be cautionary especially when dealing with something as subjective as God's prophetic word. Though once fulfilled there can be no disagreement. As the Lord has promised, every jot and tittle of scripture shall indeed be fulfilled. But as for peering into the future, well that's still just speculation, leaving no room for dogmatism and division! We continue to study to show to show ourselves approved, not to prove others wrong. TR We study to show ourselves approved at rightly dividing the word of God. But future prophetic events can only be divided by God, and prophets given words from the Lord, IMHO! Anything else is simply gambling with the Word! In many instances there are simply too many variables to be dogmatic, besides that's something only the Lord can do! We can agree to disagree because of grace and love. TR 2nd Coming, Yes, computer technology is a helpful tool to pin point when the full moons will occur so the holidays are marked on the yearly calendars. But the thing is ... the Jews still go by their traditions ... they still require 2 witnesses (priests) to look up with the naked eye to visible see the full moon before they give the announcement they “saw it” and then that kicks off the celebration of Feast of Trumpets. I recall back ... (I think it was 2014 or 2015?) there was total cloud coverage (or it was very foggy) so Feast of Trumpets got delayed for a day or two even though our calendars indicated it should start on such and such day ... until the 2 eye witnesses see the full moon, that feast celebration does not happen.
