Ever wonder....

Good question ... I’m not sure why.  Unless because most Jews rejected Jesus and then the Gospel was offered to the Gentiles and were grafted into the family and given the honor as bride? :unsure:

John 1:11-12  He came unto his own, and his own received him not.  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Won’t the Old Testament Saints be the guests at the Royal wedding? Hopefully they will have their glorified bodies by then so they can partake of the sumptuously delicious food and drinks or will they just be watching the church eat and eat and eat and eat ... B-)

With Jesus's own ascension some 40 days after his own resurrection we can conclude a few things.  The word of God has long taught a huge resurrection at the end of time.

Jesus resurrected as he prophesied he would, showing his power even over the grave.  But when Mary Magdalene approached him physically, he constrained her saying he had not yet ascended.  Then after some point he was seen for forty days as proof for his resurrection in what we term a glorified body.  We can also conclude that He being the firstfruits was setting a template for our own ascension which we call the Rapture.

Could we not be given glorified bodies at the same time we enter Heaven's gates?  For it was Paul that taught us that to absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  So all of those who have gone on before us are already in His presence.  Are they also waiting for glorified bodies?

Again, is the Rapture only for N.T. saints?  Or will the O.T. saints also precede us as the dead in Christ?  Or have the O.T. saints already received their glorified bodies?  We know that flesh cannot inhabit Heaven or withstand the glory of God, so are the souls in His presence without a body?

Scholars have contended that after the Rapture of the Church various believers shall also ascend.  Would that be with or without bodies?  And do they experience a Rapture?  Or is the Rapture only for the Bride of Christ as I maintain?  Why else was it called a mystery and only revealed to the N.T. church?

I would like solicit more discussion and the help of more knowledgeable members of RITAN!  Mods included!

TR

I think at least one reason for the rapture of the Church is that the age of grace is sandwiched between the end of the 69th week of Daniel and the start of the 70th.  Just as there was no Church in the first 69 weeks, there needs to be no Church in the 70th when God returns to the dispensation where He is dealing with Israel again.  The rapture is God's way of accomplishing this.  Also, it is very clear that God has promised we, as the age of grace believers, are not destined for wrath, and He must keep His Word in that regard as well.

T.R. asked ... “are the souls in His presence without a body?”

I’m not sure ... but I do know this ...

After my mom’s memorial service in 2011 I asked the Lord if she saw it ... and if so ... could He please show me? That night I either had a vision or a dream ... I saw a whole bunch of puffy clouds and then they rolled back like a scroll and there was her smiling young face looking down... all I saw was her face and hair and the clouds framed her head.  Then there was a flash of light and then I saw the pastor speaking and all the flowers were on display and then another flash of light and then the clouds started to roll back to cover her face and then I woke up.  I found the image that I saw in her wedding album ... she was 20 yrs old.

Then in 2015 I was lurking on the Rita board and saw a thread about visions/dreams of people’s loved ones who went to heaven.  Some got a chance to see their loved ones again... one said their dad appeared to him on earth on their front lawn?  After reading the thread I asked the Lord if He could show me all my loved ones in heaven that I was close to.  When I closed my eyes ... I felt myself flying and the next thing I was in some room that had white walls and a white floor.  I don’t know if it had a ceiling ... I never looked up but everything was white. There was no furniture, no hanging pictures ... just white walls and floor.  In a semi circle stood my grandfather, grandmother, my aunt, my mom, my dad and my sister-in-law’s mom (who was like a 2nd grandmother to me).  They were wearing American clothes and I noticed something interesting ... they were all the age of when they got saved.  My grandparents were in their early 60’s and my parents and aunt were in their early 30’s.  Except for my sister-in-law’s mom ... she was the age of when I first met her.  They were smiling and so happy but nobody said a word.  I hugged each one of them and I felt the hug and they kissed my cheek.  My grandfather was the last in the lineup and after we hugged and kissed, BAM ... I opened my eyes and I was back on earth in the family room on the sofa and I thought ... rats!  I’m back here again ... I wanted to be up there.  It was so peaceful.  The one cheek they all kissed was wet.

Sooo not sure if the Lord allowed them to have their old earthly body for that vision/dream so I could see them?

Indeed these types of encounters are emotional filled and seem so genuine.  We can only go on the info that we have in scripture.  The rich man who went to Abraham's bosom was all but told that people who once die are not sent back to Earth as their being no point to it.  Now ascending into the Heavenlies and seeing passed on relatives, that's a horse of a different color!  According to scripture only Samuel was raised up and brought back to stand before Saul the King.  Moses and Elijah ministering to or being ministered by Christ is also given as an exception!   Also, we are told to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord.

Those who have been fortunate enough to experience Heaven have all said the same thing, they didn't want to leave.  And with NDE's many are compelled by the will of God alone to finish their life on this Earth!  This is why I brought up the idea of "spirits/ghosts" months ago looking for some feedback on a biblical perspective.   Citing that even in biblical times the idea of someone's spirit appearing on Earth seemed possible.

When my own father died at the age 47 from a stroke, I questioned the Lord wondering if he was saved.  The Lord told me not to worry about it, as if it wasn't my business but His!  So I have had to trust in His judment.

Yet the occurrence of visitations are experienced worldwide and across most of human history.  Trying to make sense of it all I could not discount the element of demons.  Demons are inter-dimensional and eternal beings which could easily imitate the appearance, voice, mannerism's, and knowledge of anyone's loved ones.  As to their purpose for doing so, is to deceive.  For if even people who never accepted Christ could appear to living loved ones all with smiles, then this insures that all who die find peace! We know this is wrong, as Hell does exist.

Suddenly many cultures end up trying to appease demonic entities posing as dead spirits, passed on relatives and biblical or historical figures of old.  If the Lord would allow beloved relatives to appear just prior to someone leaving Earth themselves it would seem to me to be unnecessary as they would soon be reunited!  Perhaps God is merciful and bends the rules for some?

For if Satan can appear as an angel of light, why not the demons also to masquerade for deception's sake?!

My grandmother about 3 weeks before she died in the hospital was visited by angels.  Angelic encounters and visitations are an entirely different situation than the appearance of dead relatives.

Honestly, given what I know, if my dead father or mother were to appear to me in the dead of night my first response would be to curse them as demonic!!!

TR

The Lord says “ask and you shall receive”. :whistle:

Deep down I know both the visions/dreams I posted came from the Lord and not demons playing tricks on me.  I was in a sad point in my life ... just lost my dad 3 days prior to that vision and also was mourning a dear cyber friend on another forum board who died of cancer.  These visions both encouraged and comforted me.  Whenever I had a demonic attack ... they are always trying to hurt me any way they can, not to give out comfort.

There is a huge difference between a dream, vision or a spiritually pulled back veil.  The ghost of a deceased person making an appearance is something I'm not ready to accept as being from the Lord.  I can't judge every experience, but this is where we need a discerning spirit.

TR

Getting back to the idea's behind the Rapture, resurrections and the Lord's heart for the Church. Many bible scholars seem to have been able to separate and explain most of these questions.   Any further thoughts?

TR

Christ is the Head and we are the Body.  I think one reason for us meeting Him in the clouds is that the Father's design is for all who are His to be taken up together.  As for the Old Testament saints, they have not been resurrected.

Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.  Acts 2:29