I guess they were still going by old tradition in September 2015 ... I believe that God's feasts have multiple fulfillments across old and new testament times. In terms of the new testament Jesus fulfilled the first 3 of the 7 main feasts in His death, burial and resurrection, Pentecost was fulfilled in the book of Acts with the coming of the Holy Spirit and the inauguration of the Church/age of grace. The next on the New testament list is Yom Teruah or the feast of trumpets. I agree that Jesus was born during the feast of Tabernacles (literally God dwelling with mankind). Many noteworthy scholars suggest 11th Sept 3BC (feast of trumpets) as the day of His birth but after some studies of the stage play in the heavens and patterns from December 4BC, during which was the feast of Hanukkah (Jesus as the light of the world), I see Jesus' conception in Dec 4BC and His birth in Tabernacles (God with us), Sept 3BC. Geri7. I do agree with your comments regarding the feast of trumpets and the two witnesses etc and it has prompted me to copy an article that I wrote a while back about the language that Jesus Himself used . I have thought very carefully about my wording of this article since it could easily be misinterpreted that I am suggesting that our Lord is playing games with us. I have seen many times over the years of my bible studies that the Lord did actually toy with, manipulate, and change words. I do not believe for one moment that He did this to play games or to deceive us in any way but rather for our edification and to reward the diligent student with spiritual nuggets. Proverbs 25:2 springs to mind: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter". One of my favourite examples of this is in the Olivet discourse. Matthew 24:36-44 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[e] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f] your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. The People taken away during the flood were all taken away in judgement (Greek word is Airo-Strongs G142). From a straight reading of our English bibles we would have to admit that the people in verse 40 (end times folk) are also taken away in judgement. However Jesus changed the word for "taken" from Airo to Paralambano (Strongs G3880). Jesus changed the word from a sense of judgement to a sense of blessing which I believe refers to being taken away in the Rapture. I have thought for many years about Jesus' language in verse 36 about his return and quite frankly its always seemed a little strange to me. If I were planning a trip to Australia which was somewhat open ended I may say to family & friends something along the lines of "I am going to Australia but I don't know when I will be back" or "I am going to Australia and will return when my conference is over but I don't know when that will be". I think that my family and friends would think it strange if I said something like " I am going to Australia and I don't know at what day or hour I will return". I believe that Jesus deliberately used the language of a Jewish idiom that was directly connected to the Feast of Trumpets. The new month could not officially begin until two witnesses reported to the High Priest that they had seen the sliver of the new moon. Once the first two sightings were confirmed, the priests would sound the shofar to declare the start of Yom Teruah. But until these two witnesses came forth, the response from the priests would always be "no one knows the day or the hour" of when the holiday would begin. Thus the words of Yeshua become significant here with this understanding. (Matthew 24:36) Yeshua was saying that He would come for His bride at the Feast of the Ingathering or Feast of Trumpets). His disciples would have understood immediately what He meant. But the meaning has been lost over the centuries as the Scriptures have been separated further and further from its Hebrew roots. Yeshua was saying that we would not know which [of the two] days or at what hour [which watch during that night (Mark 13:35)], or which year that He would come. However, He did insist that we know the times and the season. This is why He gave us so many signs to look for. Hi David, Welcome to the forum board! Thank you for your insight on what you learned about the Matt 24 passage, very interesting. After looking at many views ... I’m coming to the conclusion that the phrase “No man knows the day and hour” of His return ... Jesus was giving His disciples the riddle clue that they alone understood completely while ironically the church down through the ages is left mystified. On the Mount of Olives that day the disciples were looking for when Jesus would set up his Millennium Kingdom and who amongst themselves would be the greatest in their assigned role. The church didn’t form until after His death burial and resurrection ... 50 days later on Pentecost in the book of Acts so its obvious they weren’t asking about any rapture date but His 2nd Coming to rule and reign and setting up his Kingdom. Here are some views on the “no man knows the day or the hour” Many believe it refers to the rapture and we are not to know, its sinful to even try to calculate or figure it out. :negative: ———— Some think it refers to the 2nd Coming on Feast of Trumpets because the “sun will be darkened, the moon turns to blood and the stars fall” and that is the only feast that 2 witnesses are needed to look out at the moon with their naked eyes before they start blowing the trumpets to kick off and proclaim the new year party celebration. ————- ”He is coming like a thief in the night” – is that the rapture? Nope “No man knows the day or the hour” – does that apply to the rapture? Nope. Instead its in reference that the unbelievers living in the tribulation they will be clueless in knowing the time or program of God. So they will be shell shocked when He suddenly appears at the 2nd Coming because they won’t be expecting Him. ”One will be taken and the other left” … this does NOT apply to the saved being raptured out but pertains to the lost during the end of the tribulation taken out for the Judgment of the goats. Only the tribulation believers (sheep) who made it to the end … will enter the millennium kingdom. Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are all about the 2nd coming advent and NOT the rapture at all. All Scripture is for us but not all Scripture is about us. ————— Another view is in Acts 1:11 “ Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” There is speculation that the rapture will be on Ascension Day ... this year it falls on May 21, 2020 :mail: Then the remaining 3 fall feasts could be fulfilled with ———— As far as Jesus‘ earthly Birthday ... that also is a toss up ... so many good views to pick and chose. Here are a few out there: Per Dr. Hank Lindstrom in Tampa, FL So the course of Abia priestly duties for Zacharias ended on July 31st and that night he went home and Elisabeth conceived John the Baptist. 6 months later would make it January 31st ... when Mary went to visit her cousin Elisabeth to tell her the good news that she was chosen to give birth to the Messiah. Then John the Baptist (in the womb leaped for joy) upon hearing the conversation. Exactly 9 months from January 31st would take us to October 31st. Jesus is always on time. Since satan wants to be like God .. how fitting he took that holiday away to make it his own satanic day. And winter doesn’t officially begin in Israel until the next day, Nov 1st ... so the shepherds in the field watching over their sheep at night would still fit in the timeline - just in the nick of time, eh? :whistle: Then you have this view which threw “the course of Abia” view right out the window I’m sure there are so many more views out there to chose from with ... Feast of Tabernacles (God dwelling with us) to Hanukkah (He is the Light of the World) etc. I got a feeling we will know for sure the actual Birthday when we get to Heaven and it will all be explained for us then. :whistle: Indeed on the basis of many scriptures, many various arguments can be made for many notable dates. His birth, our Rapture, the Second Coming etc! As such it seems to me that what we can best draw from all of these is to constantly be ready to leave on a moments notice. As this is all that we might be given. Now what constitutes being ready by our standards is truly subjective. Or being ready by the Lord's standard might look entirely different. There are many scriptures that are all encompassing and overarching. Some are seemingly conditional in that the Lord is looking for some sort of reciprocation. Many are couched within "if" statements! Some of God's applications are couched in epoch times, some might be altered within various covenant types?! But if we remember, the Spirit of the Lord was taken from Samson, King Saul prophesied, Judas was number as one of the twelve, and the word tells us that not all that say Lord, Lord will enter into the kingdom. So given are acceptance of the doctrine of OSAS we can either find great assurance or be somewhat mistaken!? My mind and heart would indeed defer to OSAS as greater men with greater minds than myself have taken this as truth. Yet my spirit give me cause to pause. As I have often found there to be a great difference between the doctrines of men and demons as opposed to the truth! Just saying, that though many might fulfill the letter of the Word and the apprehension of His promises, we may still stand in conflict with the spirit of His word! Having said this, I have always relied on following and being close to the Lord's heart! For if I truly had no love of Christ in my heart, neither He nor I would enjoy being eternally united! TR Tabernacle, fulfilled by Jesus, God became flesh Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruit, fulfilled by Jesus' crucifixion, burial, and resurrection Rosh Hashana Yom Kippur , fulfilled by Jesus' blood on the cross. There is no more need for the Jews to observe this feast, and reflect on their sin during these ten days of awe. All they need is to accept Jesus as their savior. Shavuot/Pentecost , hasn't been fulfilled by Jesus. This feast is divided into two parts. The first part. 15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: Seven sabbath comes to Sivan 5. On the morrow after seven sabbath, on Sivan 6, God descent on mount Sinai. This is the first time God was face to face with human. The second part. 16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. Jesus shall fulfill this second part. He shall be the High Priest on Tammuz 26, 50 days after Sivan 6, and makes an offering to God. Actually, from my timeline, Jesus shall fulfill the first part and second part altogether. He is coming back on Sivan 6 (the first part). And fifty days later (the second part), on Tammuz 26, he shall make an offering to God the Father, with remnant of Israel and the Gentiles represent the two loaves of bread. I believe this is how he shall fulfill the feast of Shavuot/Pentecost. Its great to read all of the comments here regarding the timing of the rapture and the tribulation. I have already mentioned that I am an avid pre-tribber but I have dear Christian friends on both sides of the Atlantic who are post tribbers, or as JD Faraq says "post toasties" ! What I see amongst many of the post tribbers is a very common theme in their reading of Matthew 24 in that they read verses 29-31 and perceive that they will be gathered to the Lord after the tribulation has run its course. Matthew 24 29-31 (KJV) 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. I believe that this passage of scripture is talking about the saved remnant of Israel and not the Bride of Christ. Matthew 24 cannot be read chronologically and one of the proofs of that is verse 36. Jesus said "but before that day and hour". Jesus spend verses 1-35 taking about birth pangs, the parable of the fig tree, the events of the tribulation including His second coming but then He uses verse 36 as a hinge and He essentially says BEFORE any of these happen I need to tell you about something very important that must happen first. That very important thing is the rapture of the church in verses 40-41 that I talked about in an earlier post, where Jesus changed the word for taken. For me this snapping back to the beginning if you like at verse 36, is another one of many proofs in scripture of a pre-trib rapture and I personally see it to be a potential trap for believing that the rapture will happen after the tribulation if we don't realize this. Trump bumped up National Day of Prayer for Sunday, March 15th. It was originally scheduled for May 7th (on the appearance of the 3rd Super Moon). Speaking of Super Moon ... do you feel things have gotten crazier since the March 9th Super Moon? And we have April 8th Passover Super Moon coming up ... if we are still here :whistle: Hi David! Welcome to the forum. We’re glad you’re here! Yohanan
Regina posted an Andy Woods youtube ... in the “Amazing Rapture Facts” thread. To recap the youtube ... Andy Woods looked up various words in the Greek and teaches:
Another view is the rapture is Pentecost since the church started on that date the fulfillment will be the church is rapture on a future date of Pentecost as well.
2nd Coming being on Feast of Trumpets?
the Judgment of separating the sheep from the goats on Yom Kippur?
the start of the Millennium (God dwelling with us) on Feast of Tabernacles?
He believed a timeline can be calculated ... which begins with the date of priestly service of Zacharias during the Jewish two-week "course of Abia."
in Luke 1:5-13 “There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years. And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course, According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord. And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense. And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.”
Yohanan, with great joy and glee, posted a thread about in Jonathan Cahn’s latest book he talks about the lambs are only born at one time of the year ... that would be in the spring time and since Jesus is the Lamb of God ... Jonathan Cahn leans that Jesus’ birth was in March or April near Passover.
