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Kingdom Competition and Commerce -- Huh?

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MyWhiteStone
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I have spent a lot of my last 6 ½ years since joining RITA Now thinking about what our day-in-day-out lives will be like, say in the Millennium, starting in about 7 ½ years from now.  The world will be in a rebuilding state – homes, towns, burgs, shires, villages, all coming together …  Maybe at first a lot of mortals (maybe we too?) will enjoy tilling the soil in lush fruitful climates, planting their trees, and soon laid back enjoying life. We are told that the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as waters cover the sea.  Everyone, mortals and immortals alike, will be then all about sharing – loving their neighbors as themselves.  But will all competition have vanished? Forever?

Suppose that sometime within the next 500 years, you with some friends come up with a fantastic means to do something or invent something that would have a far-reaching benefit to mankind. Something no one ever thought of, say extending the life of the average 350-year-old by another 150 years (see Isaiah 65:20)!  You are endowed with eternal philanthropy and so you share your research and development results (R&D) with scores or hundreds of other interested enterprises and establish a high global recognition incentive to be granted to the company who brings it to market soonest at the most reasonable price.  Competition for the good of mankind is the appeal, not for the greed of the shareholders, even though the monetary rewards might just be astonishing for all the cooperating companies.

Zooming back to the present for a moment: Driving home from church the other morning I saw a Tesla electric car drive by. The R&D that had to go into its design was undoubtedly guarded carefully.  Why?  Simple: competition for the electric car dollar. But with Christ on the Throne soon and our ruling and reigning with Him, how might commerce and competition then be different?  Forbidden?  Fostered?  Flourishing?

Another fun potential scenario regarding competition in the Kingdom: You and your former spouse down here were very good bridge players. Your great grandfather, a Christian believer whom you eventually found, also excelled in playing an earlier 19th century version of bridge. The games differ in some ways so you start by formalizing rules. After all, games are pointless wastes of time without rules. But maybe if competition in the Kingdom is actually discouraged, rules would languish. Perhaps players could agree to simply shuffle the cards with skill, then cut and deal them. No strategy or bidding skill is needed. Nor desired. Then after the cards are dealt, they are all regathered, pushed back together, reshuffled, cut and dealt. Yawn! Perhaps no winners, but happily no losers either! Maybe the winners are those who stay awake. That might be easier for us immortals.

Another one – sports: Someone redesigns and manufactures new basketball, football, and hockey gear.  Mortals have a lot of leisure time on their hands, so they buy all kinds of sporting goods.  Teams are formed and local rules are written, and everyone, mortals and immortals alike, have a good time trying to be the best they can be.  Competiton again. But it soon becomes clear that leagues are needed. For example basketball games are more easily won by we immortals who according to Isaiah 40 can mount up with wings as eagles…

Have you ever thought there might be competition of any kind in the Kingdom? What would you hope it looks like?  Finally, will immortals and mortals mix in any way? Be next-door neighbors maybe?

Dan   :unsure: :wacko: :scratch: :feedback

 
Posted : March 9, 2019 3:47 pm
 Tom
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The 1,000 year reign of Christ as King of Kings on the refurbished Earth will be an awesome time for His Bride, the Saints of old and the Tribulation saints that were slain will rule and reign with Him.  First of all, for all those that belong to Christ they will have a glorified body.  Old things will have passed away and all things become new it would seem to apply to our physical bodies, our mind (pattern of thinking and doing) and our ability to totally submit to Christ and His agenda.  The only competition I see us doing is the desire to be the best servant just like our Savior.  Our bodies will no longer have the entity of sin dwelling with in it and can never be corrupted or die which mean our source of life will no longer be blood or oxygen or water or food but one that has a God given gene and new DNA. Scripture suggest we will be encased in light and not subject to the laws of nature as we know it now.   At least that is my best understanding.

Those Jews and Gentiles that made it through the great Tribulation will repopulate the Earth and we will be the ambassadors and Priest in the Government of Christ which will be based in Jerusalem. (Rev. 20:6)  There will be a Temple in Jerusalem where the Jewish people will still live under the covenant God made with Moses.  All feast and laws will continue to be carried out by them and the Gentiles will be required to come to Jerusalem once a year for the Feast of Tabernacles.  See Ezk. chapter 40 thru 48 and Zach. 14:16-21

With Jesus as our Bridegroom, I suspect our focus and desire will be for Him.  He is our Head and we are His body.  All that we do will be directed by Him and we will love every second of it.  :yahoo:

 

 
Posted : March 9, 2019 8:55 pm
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Like Tom said, we will be glorified, and there will be those not glorified with their sin nature intact.  So considering your question, we would have to decide if competition is considered sinful.  Is it sinning to be a winner?  I don't think so, unless you are an ungracious winner.  Is it a sin to be a loser?  I don't think so, unless you are an angry, ungracious loser.  So why would competition be considered wrong?  If it is not wrong, and such a big part of humanity, why would it be destroyed?

Another way to think of it is, did God make competition as a good part of humanity or was it a result of the fall?  Did Adam and Eve play games before the fall and have a good ole time?  If they did, which I can just picture it, there had to be a winner and a loser.  But honestly, did they really care if they lost?  Wouldn't they be like, "Hey, great job on besting me?"  I think so.  There was just no ego there.  So if God made our brains to be able to enjoy lively competition and enjoy it, why  in the Millennium would He undo something He considered good?

When I go camping with my family we put up a volleyball net and play badminton.  We play for hours and hours and laugh so hard our guts hurt the next day.  We have done this for years.  I look back at those times, and I do not remember how many times I have been on the winning team or the losing team.  I don't ever remember anyone feeling bad for losing or getting upset at any unfairness.  It was all fun, because no one cared who won or lost.  We just wanted to enjoy playing together.  That is how I picture it in the Millennium.  We will be playing and laughing and having a great time of fellowship and joy!  Don't you think that would make Jesus smile?  Can't you picture Him joining in?  LOL.  :calvin

 

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 9:26 am
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I’m kind of hoping there are amusement parks with rides as well as water parks not just in heaven but on the restored earth as well.

I also hope there are movie theaters so we get to see the re-enactment of the Bible stories ...

Can you just picture in theater #1 now showing the creation story and we see how it all came together in 6 days?  In theater #2 the story of Abraham. In theater #3 Noah and the flood.  Theater #4 Moses and parting of the Red Sea.  Theater #5 David’s fight against Goliath, etc.  while the angels serve us snacks - popcorn :popcorn  and fruit slushie drinks. :whistle:

After all there will be corn in heaven ...

Psalm 78:24-25 “And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven. Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.”

 

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 9:56 am
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I love that idea!  I like movies.  Smile :popcorn

But I really LOVE rollercoaster!  I hope we have a ton of them.  This one is on my bucket list.

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 10:03 am
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I also love playing cards “Michigan Rummy”.  We used pennies to fill the bowls. The winner never keeps the pennies and we just re-used them again the next time we played.  Can you imagine using diamond chips or small gold nuggets?

I also hope there are libraries.  We know the Lord uses books - “the books were open” and there is the “Book of Life”.  So I’m hoping that there are libraries  that contain books on all those who got saved and how they became believers as well as the family tree of their ancestors.  It will be so cool to read our background heritage.

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 10:35 am
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Yikes ... that is one scary rollercoaster! LOL ...ok, I promise I will be up for the challenge of this one ... in the next life. :yes:

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 10:44 am
Yohanan
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I love books and learning and I truly hope we continue to learn in Heaven! I can imagine walking the Great Hall of Learning with Jesus as Teacher!

Roller coasters? Nah! That would be like that place I do not want to go for me 😉

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 1:27 pm
MyWhiteStone
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Thanks, Tom. I believe everything you have stated. I think one thing I'm suggesting though is that we'll have "glorious" freedom (see Romans 8 and elsewhere) in our choices of activity. Particularly in relation to daily life.

Truly as you stated, Tom, our focus and desire will be for Him, what we do will be directed by Him, and we'll indeed enjoy every second of our lives; but wouldn't that freedom likely include pursuit of all manner of un-directed activity?  Personal interests? I'm certain He will not micromanage us or discourage personal initiative, pleasure, preference, or gifting in any way.  I expect we'll have wisdom to know what to do in our main job as rulers and reigners with Him, particularly within the "regions" within which we are expected to perform.

Recall in the movie, "Chariots of Fire," that Eric Liddell told his sister, "God made me fast, Ginny, and when I run I feel His pleasure."  I suspect Eric Liddell when resurrected may still be gifted "fast." And he just might enjoy a challenge from someone else fast.  And I do know that  Yohanan here is chomping at the bit to play football up there.  To win!  I further suspect that if someone prefers living a monastic existence, God would also honor that and aid such a person to come up with prayer lists.

One big thing I do wonder, Tom, is whether we'll rub physical elbows with mortals.  And if so, in what contexts?  Will we perform our future roles similarly to how God's (unseen) Divine Council has performed since the beginning in our world, or perhaps only make occasional or special rare appearances as angels do -- unawares – serving in behalf of our charges?  Or will we possibly have earthly (plus New Jerusalem-ly) physical residences?  Will we be among those possibly implied in Isaiah 30:21, who walk behind mortals saying, "...This is the correct way. Walk in it."  For certain the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as waters cover the sea, as stated a few places in the Word, so maybe at that time we'll be effective teachers, maybe seen or maybe unseen.

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 4:00 pm
Yohanan
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An interesting quote from Chariots of Fire “God made me fast, Ginny, and when I run I feel His pleasure.” I believe that even atheists praise God, whether they like it or not, when they perform the talents He has given them. :popcorn

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 4:28 pm
KolleenWStone
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:wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :groan

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 6:08 pm
MyWhiteStone
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The victorious but sad Jewish runner in that movie didn't recognize the gift though, did he? He lamented that ten seconds out of his life justified his entire existence.  Glory to God on the other hand is the name of a believer's game.  Even the greater catechism's first question about the purpose of man is responded to by saying, "to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever."  I guess for many really gifted but clueless people who miss that understanding, it's hard to be humble. Sadly if it's all pride, they already have their reward.

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 6:31 pm
David W. Roche
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MyWhiteStone wrote: "Finally, will immortals and mortals mix in any way? Be next-door neighbors maybe?"

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Revelation 20:9

This is an interesting verse which suggests (if I am understanding it correctly) that the saints, whom I take to be those in glorified bodies, will have a camp near Jerusalem.  It might be something like a base of operations for the government.

I also think one reason for the rebellion at the end is the resentment of those who are immortal among the mortal population.  Just an idea.

 

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 10:55 pm
MyWhiteStone
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Who could possibly resent a nice old immortal, David? (tongue way into cheek here Smile )

Thanks for the thought / the perspective.

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 11:01 pm
 Tom
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Seems to me that our understanding of how things will be in our new body with it's different abilities and lack of needs can not be conceived since we have no experience to rely upon to judge.  Since we will no longer have a human body that likes recreation to find happiness and rest from the grind  of trying to make ends meet in this money based world we live in it is hard to imagine living in a world that has no reasons to get our "needs" met since we will be fully loved unconditionally and every physical and emotional need will be taken care of by our Bridegroom.  Since we belong to Him, He will take care of ALL our needs and desires (whatever they might be) which will be much different than we can conceive or understand as long as we are in this body of sin of which we long to be rid.   Amen? :yahoo: :prayer-hands: :rose:

 
Posted : March 13, 2019 11:28 am
MyWhiteStone
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Amen perhaps, Tom, to needing nothing / being fully provided for / nothing like we've ever experienced.  But I believe, based on our currently understood state as "imagers of God," attributes understood and enjoyed already, plus the fact that He declares we shall be "like Him," that we currently have a great deal of relevant experience.  Compassion, probably making us quite effective as rulers and reigners, is in us already.  Even most unbelievers have compassion at some level.  Creativity now satisfies us.  Accomplishment satisfies us.  Curiosity draws out our time, talent, and effort.  Purpose, meaning, and mission... All will survive I'm sure.  Consider that all the Fruits of the Spirit are familiar to those He inhabits -- the Spirit-filled believers.  These attributes will survive. Ad grow!  And thrive!

Models and clues abound, in my opinion.  Just because we will be perfectly provided for there and then, lacking struggles for example, does not imply to me that we will be or have nothing like we are or possess now.  What was pre-fall Adam and his environment like?  In many aspects nearly identical with now. With Eden restored, i.e., God's plan, I believe there will be millions of things for us and them to do, as originally intended.  All of us "imagers," down here. We after all return with Him.  All of our reason for existing, which we already have solid clues about, will unfold.  But this time unhampered.

iMHO... :yes:

 
Posted : March 14, 2019 5:30 am
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Yes, its hard to imagine a glorified body free from sin since sin is all we know so far.  But we are promised a sinless body! :yahoo:   So there won’t be anyone bickering or jealously and we will all be happy to see the talents of each brother and sister.

I hope there are baking, candy making, and cooking contests.  Wouldn’t it be awesome to be a judge and get to sample everything ... well, almost everything ... a big NO to the fish dishes. :negative:

 

 
Posted : March 14, 2019 9:08 am
Yohanan
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Hi Geri, a "big NO to fish dishes"? I love fish dishes! :yes:  Or am I missing something?

 
Posted : March 16, 2019 6:36 am
 Tom
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Hey Geri, looks like you and Jonah have something in common..... :yahoo: :unsure: :wacko:

 
Posted : March 16, 2019 8:20 am
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LOL ...  Oh boy ... I sense a gang up here ... ok, before I have to walk the plank like Jonah ...

Hear me out ....

I’m seriously not fond of “hairy fish” aka anchovies.  The same goes with crustaceans - crab, lobster, shrimp.  They are EXTREMLEY smelly and tasteless.  You have to admit the restaurants really need to doctor up those dishes .... saturate it with a few sticks of melted butter and shrimp hast to be fried in at least 3 layers of bread crumb and then dipped into a cold tomato sauce to disguise the nastiness and trick the customers into thinking its “edible”.   And don’t get me started with escargot ... gag .... you seriously like snails?  And slimy clams/mussels?  Shivers ... And last but not least ... Caviar “fish eggs”?  Eww

I’m positive the marriage supper will ONLY be land animal meals of:  steak, prime ribs, filet mignon, chicken, lamb, ham, and Italian dishes.
And if you say hey wait a minute ... what about innocent “salmon” .... forget it ... it can’t be on the heavenly table.  Because ... “what happens when you put Nutella on Salmon?  You get salmonella. :whistle:

 
Posted : March 16, 2019 5:01 pm
Yohanan
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:mdrmdr: Love it! But I will respectfully disagree with you about the marriage supper. When Jesus fed the multitude, twice, on both occasions He didn't feed them steak, prime ribs, filet mignon (my favorite), chicken, lamb, ham, or Italian dishes. He fed them fish! But fear not, sister. When we are at the banquet table I'm sure one of two things will have taken place. Either our glorified bodies will have a special hunger and delight for fish, or the table will be lavish with every good and desirable foods to eat. Probably the latter. And I would suspect that the Nutella and salmon would be far away from one another 😉

 
Posted : March 17, 2019 5:07 am
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I just re-read the story of feeding of the 5,000.  I noticed the boy carrying the picnic basket was poor since he settled on retrieving 2 small mercury filled smelly fish out from the sea; and he spent all his money on the  5 barley loaves.  I noticed Jesus concentrated on the loaves of bread - He picked them up and gave thanks .... symbolizes He is the Bread of Life.

“And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would.“

When Jesus chose Simon Peter and his brother Andrew and a few other fishermen to be His disciples .... He told them to drop their livelihood of toxic fishing and to “follow Me and I will make you fishers of men.”  Then after the resurrection Jesus appeared unto them ... they were depressed and confused and Peter was still upset about betraying Jesus.  Notice they went back to their old trade of toxic fishing.  Jesus was there to comfort them, explain more things to them and He was encouraging them again to become fisher of men and to start up His church.

I reckon though the Lord “might” give you fish lovers your wish of a tiny sampling of fish horderves at a table .... down by the sea shore.  It will not be a hop skip or jump from the King’s mega smorgasbord table of sumptuously delicious land animal meals.

By the way ...what is your view on coffee?    I’m strongly leaning towards toxic coffee and coffee ice cream will be missing in heaven.  No worries though ... pretty much every other ice cream flavor will be there.  During my studies I found out after the fall the coffee bean plant started sprouting at the same time as the poison ivy vine. :yes:

Looks like the hot beverages will be:

Tea (fresh tea leaves picked from the Tree of Life and then brewed - hot or cold).

Hot Cocoa with lots of marshmallows, whip cream and cherries since the cocoa bean was thankfully included in with the creation of plant life.

Lots of cold drinks to choose from as well: wine, water, lemonade, cran-grape juice, pineapple juice, OJ, etc.

 
Posted : March 17, 2019 8:13 am
Yohanan
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I am SO glad I was not in a public library when I read this: "I noticed the boy carrying the picnic basket was poor since he settled on retrieving 2 small mercury filled smelly fish out from the sea; " I burst our laughing so loud it would have made the librarian in the "What's in your wallet" commercial sound tame by comparison! :mdrmdr: Too funny! I'm also glad I wasn't taking in a sip of lovely coffee, either, as I would be cleaning my computer screen right now!

I am just glad our Lord did not leave you in charge of our consumables lest I have nothing left to enjoy, as I am a lover of coffee. Not that over roasted, bitter, motor oil sold at a ridiculous premium at a very well known coffee enterprise out of Seattle, but the stuff I make at home. Now, with that said, I will join you in the love of hot cocoa! Mmmm! Good stuff, especially when you add coffee to it 😉

 
Posted : March 17, 2019 8:56 am
MyWhiteStone
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You're a riot, Geri! You crack me up. I'm sure glad that we believers have "glorious freedom," which includes our culinary preferences.  And that we also possess discernment, enabling whosoever will to see through certain biased insinuations about aquatic foods.  Good try, Geri. Even if toxicity fears planted by doubters up there persist, Jesus could simply reassure them, "You have eternal life."

Along with my intrepid friend Yohanan, I'm also looking forward to seafood being one of those "pleasures at our right hand forevermore."

Viva la Pisces!  Viva la shellfish!  Viva la crustaceans!  Viva la butter!  Oh, and Viva la Cafe!!

I'm so sorry for your loss, Geri. :whistle: Cry 🙁 :unsure: 😉

Your deluded but joyful anyway brother in Christ,

Dan

 
Posted : March 17, 2019 9:18 am
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Well if you think about it ... the Bible gives a couple of clues ... extremely small fish that wasn’t cooked ... what else can it be that poor boy was carrying ... it had to be nasty sardines!  :wacko:    No wonder the Lord only held up the bread loaves and blessed them!  I betcha He even warmed up the bread to persuade the crowd to take the bread because they were very hungry and He didn’t want them to get food poisoning munching on the uncooked sardines....

:good:  Yeah we are in agreement Starbucks coffee is gross.   Every time I would go into Barnes and Noble they were always trying to give out their free samples of their latest drink.  I always refused and said I much prefer a free sample from the bakery department.  Some workers were so kind they actually started to hand out their cookies!

In charge of consumables!  LOL      Hey, the scary thing is I do  have some experience in that field .... so you never know. B-)  Perhaps I will have a small part-time assignment at the heavenly Rainbow Row snack shop like I did at summer camp?  Just pray I’m not assigned to snack shop duties because I was very successful in persuading many from wanting a coffee ice cream cone.  Told them that flavor has been sitting around and full of ice crystals (it really was),  how about Chocolate Almond instead?   And those who wanted “the works” ice cream  soda float (that consisted of every flavor).   I just left out coffee ice cream and gave them an extra scoop of vanilla, they were clueless and still happy.  If I’m required to make coffee ... I’m borrowing Dan’s line here ,with the dress clothes commercial ... “you will not like the way it taste, I guarantee it” 😉

 
Posted : March 17, 2019 12:51 pm
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Dan,

The Lord promises the bad things in this life we wont remember anymore.  I’m hoping all you who crave “fish and coffee” will not remember them in the next life. :whistle:

 
Posted : March 17, 2019 12:59 pm
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Dan & Yohanan,

I’m raising my white flag and I will admit heaven is going to be incredible.  I guarantee we will all be happy and you and the others who enjoy seafood and coffee and those who hate those smelly aroma fumes ... somehow ,someway they won’t bother us anymore.

It was fun joking with you both.  :rose:

 
Posted : March 17, 2019 1:53 pm
Yohanan
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You are too funny! See, if you had been serving that coffee ice cream it wouldn't have had ice crystals in it!

They didn't need to cook the fish. they served it as sushi and everyone was happy :yes:

When it comes to ice cream, haagen dazs mint chip can't be beat! Reuben Mattus had a vision from Heaven when he came up with that!

 
Posted : March 17, 2019 2:09 pm
Yohanan
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Oh no! Don't raise the white flag! I am so enjoying this. I haven't laughed this hard in a long time. You have a wonderful sense of humor

 
Posted : March 17, 2019 2:13 pm
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Wait a minute ...  I believe it was the Japanese who invented sushi and in the 19th Century!   And .... eating raw meat dishes the Lord forbade!  Nice try   :stinkerbell:

I’ve never had the Haagen Dazs brand ...  thanks for the heads up ... I will have to check out the mint chip! :good:

 

 
Posted : March 17, 2019 3:48 pm
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