Getting back to … Jesus says “he who endures to the end shall be saved.” (Matt 24:13) This will not be easy to do. I was reading a little more on what “tribulation” life will be like. The famine will be soooo great globally for 7 years and/or the high cost of whatever food that is available … will be unattainable to purchase for the average person. This will make people do just about ANYTHING to feed their belly’s. And all restraint is off … so anything goes. And any believer saved during this timeframe WILL NOT have the Comforter (Holy Spirit) living inside of them to convict or direct them like we have today. Hence one author indicates … expect cannibalism to be running rampant :wacko: My thoughts are … since a tribulation believer will not be in the social system to buy or sell … will ALL stand firm and resist the mark of the beast? We know many will … (Revelation 7:9-17) but will some actually eventually cave in? Look at the actions of Esau. He sold his birthright for only 1 meal … a bowl of lentil soup and bread. And later on he did despise Jacob and wanted to kill him and Jacob had to run away. So who is to say SOME of those tribulation “believers” will not cave in for the mark of beast … its going to look so attractive and the peer pressure will be great. They might even be so deceived thinking it won’t be bad and try to justify their actions. And Jesus said “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”(Matt 7:21) Genesis 25:29-34 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint: And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom. And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright. And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me? And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright. Hi Arthur, this is the first time I have read the word "repent" used on this forum. Repent has got to be the most misused word in all of Christianity. It simply means to change ones mind, period. In terms of salvation, we are only asked to change our mind from our unbelief in Christ to believing in Him as our Savoir. It does not mean repenting of this or that, it simply means changing ones mind to believing in Christ. Ever notice that John in his Gospel never uses the word "repent" when referring to salvation, he instead uses Believe instead, ever wonder why. Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. “Confess before men” is actually … stating you’re now born again and a follower of Jesus Christ. Witnessing/sharing your testimony of what Jesus did in saving you! Go and Tell the Good News with others. Its part of the Great Commission … Matt 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Well, the Book of Romans, sometimes referred to as the Book of Grace was quoted by Geri: Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. when Eve listened and followed the serpent, and when Adam ate also, this was first of all a lack of faith. If Eve believed God, she would have feared to "die" or asked God about what the serpent said. same with Adam. their not trusting God's word to be true (lack of faith) about staying away from dying was what tripped them into disobedience. God spoke to Adam that he would die if he ate from that tree. God wanted Adam to believe him. Unbelief separated Adam and Eve from everlasting life with God, and unbelief is what continues to separate people from everlasting life with God. In the tribulation years, what people need to do, Jew and Gentile, is to place faith in Christ to save their soul, entrust their life to Jesus. If they believe God's word, they will not take the mark of the beast or worship his image. They will believe God is the only one worthy to be worshipped. Not anyone or anything else. God is going to reach the lost during this horrific time of trouble through 4 basic avenues. They are as follows: 1. The 2 Witnesses The 2 Witnesses And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days (1260), clothed in sackcloth … And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have the power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the day of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. Now when they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three and half days, and not allow their bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because the these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. Now after the three and half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand men were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven. Rev 11:3-13 144,000 Jewish Witnesses After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed. Rev 7:1-4 An Angel of the Everlasting Gospel Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth – to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people – saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water. Rev 14:6-7 A Major Outpouring of the Holy Spirit And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions; and also on my menservants and on my maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, as the Lord has said, among the remnant whom the Lord calls. Joel 2:28-32 I was curious to know what “Lordship Salvation” is since this term and “easy believism” weren’t popular terms in the 1970’s when I got saved. Per GotQuestion …. Lordship Salvation John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus, the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer; the gospel message is a call to discipleship. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience. Advocates of lordship salvation point to Jesus’ repeated warnings to the religious hypocrites of His day as proof that simply agreeing to spiritual facts does not save a person. There must be a heart change. Jesus emphasized the high cost of discipleship: “Whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27), and “Those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples” (verse 32). In the same passage, Jesus speaks of counting the cost; elsewhere, He stresses total commitment: “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:62). In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says that eternal life is a narrow path found by “only a few” (Matthew 7:14); in contrast, easy-believism seeks to broaden the path so that anyone who has a profession of faith can enter. Jesus says that “every good tree bears good fruit” (verse 17); in contrast, easy-believism says that a tree can still be good and bear nothing but bad fruit. Jesus says that many who say “Lord, Lord” will not enter the kingdom (verses 21–23); in contrast, easy-believism teaches that saying “Lord, Lord” is good enough. Lordship salvation teaches that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then he or she will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26). Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin. - Fair Use - ——————— So what are your thoughts to this? When is the right time to ask Jesus to be Lord and center stage of your life? To give complete surrender if not in the first prayer to Him? Should it be done in the 2nd prayer to Him vs. the very first prayer or do you wait a few weeks/months or years so it isn’t considered “works based salvation”? :unsure: What disturbs me about those who knock down full repentance/surrender and asking Jesus to be Lord in the first prayer vs. only wanting the fire insurance of the gift of heaven with easy believism … a lot in the easy believism group … I lurk over on other forum boards and read their testimonies. They claimed after they prayed … they felt no difference. That is scary because they should have experienced … joy in knowing their sins are FINALLY forgiven, that they are NOW a child of the King and peace in knowing they are now heaven bound! The fruit of the Holy Spirit indwelling them gives - love, joy, peace ….. (Galatians 5:22) So was their “easy believism” just nothing more than a head-knowledge belief ? :unsure: Even King David after he sinned prayed “ Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit” (Psalm 51:12) And the Bible also says … Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17) To Geri9 and Yohanan; Are you addressing me? Romans 9, 10, and the first half of chapter 11 are a sided-bar to unbelieving Israel as a nation. Paul is not directing this to the body of Christ. Part of his mission was to go to unbelieving Israel. Many individual Jews came to Christ, but not Israel as a nation. One of the biggest hurdles for Israel was they did not believe Christ was raised form the dead; if they did they would know he was their Messiah and Lord. As far as the word "saved" being used, I think this is not in terms of justification unto eternal life, but for Israel's national salvation and rescue from the harm and death of the tribulation. Saved can be a broad term and does not always mean justification unto eternal life. The gospel which Paul preached, justification by faith alone in Christ alone, who was put to death for our sins and raised for our justification is the only gospel of salvation we the church are to believe. And a gospel message that adds something from us to this other than simple faith Paul calls another gospel or a false gospel. (Gal 1;6-9) Paul explains in Romans and all his letters that we are justified by grace alone and received simply by our faith alone, and he explains this over and over and over.... Yet there are people that just resting their faith in Christ is just not enough: they have to add this or that--the "me" factor. So, they come up with Roman 10:9 as an additional requirement added to faith to be saved. I have nothing against confessing Christ as Lord; I have, and I think all believers should. But it is not part of the gospel of our salvation that is received by our faith alone. Does Paul tell us in the gospel of Christ's death for our sins, burial, and his resurrection from dead that, by the way as an additional requirement, we also have to confess with our mouths the Lord Jesus Christ? No. Because if Paul did he would be adding to the gospel message. To conclude, I came to this forum after reading the RITAN statement of faith which says, in so many words, that salvation is by faith in Christ alone, nothing about adding verbal confession to be saved. Also I wanted be part of an online community here that encourages one another in the wonderful future that awaits us when Christ come for us in the Rapture. Most people here are friendly, others are not. I did not come here to debate: I came here for fellowship with other believers. I have stated my views and I hope you will respect them as I also respect yours even if I don't agree with all of them. Phil Indeed Phil, glad you are here! Again on another thread I also speak to the simplicity of salvation citing: All who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved! Pointing out Israel has not accepted the name of Jesus as messiah, while throughout history many have neither heard this name as well! But whatever testimony men are given, God judges the hearts of all men! TR Hi Geri, you asked for our thoughts, so here are my thoughts. I believe John MacArthur is a false teacher of the false doctrine and false gospel of what is called loadship salvation. It is the false system of the Calvinist "TULIP" demanding perseverance for salvation. MacArthur and his accolades are just modern day Pharisees, pure and simple. They place on their flocks the unattainable loads and demands of works , works and more works to be saved. This so called "Gospel According to Jesus" is salvation by works, not by faith alone and is not the true gospel that Paul taught to be saved, (1 Cor 15:1-4; Eph 1:13-14). MacArthur comingles the law with grace and this is exactly what Paul condemned in Galatians.. They call people like me "easy believism" Well that's fine because believing was meant to be easy; Christ did all the hard part. I do hope MacArthur is aware of Paul's warning to those who teach a false gospel in Gal. 1:6-9. MacArthur does not rightly divide word between what Christ taught under the law during his earthly ministry and what was taught primarily by Paul during the age of grace, the church age. Again, we are not saved by MacArthur's so called "Gospel According Jesus", instead our salvation rests alone in Christ's death for our sins, his burial, and resurrection from the dead, period. (1 Cor 15:1-4)
2. 144,000 Jewish Witnesses
3. An Angel of the Everlasting Gospel
4. A Major Outpouring of the Holy Spirit
