Would this be another pre rapture/trib sign or does this happen only during the trib... When do all the Jews head back to Israel? I know they are doing so in waves. But many, especially here in the states, don't feel the need to leave yet. But we are told that eventually God brings them all back. So when? If its a pre rapture sign, then we still have a ways to go I believe the Jews will feel the need to flee to Israel after the rapture. I base it on this chapter in Revelation 18 when Babylon the Great is destroyed. I personally believe NYC is Mystery Babylon. I used to live in Northern NJ (28 miles from Manhattan). NJ/NY/CT is heavily populated with Jewish people. Bagel shops are practically on every street corner and Kosher foods are sold everywhere. My mom used to work in the public school in the city we lived in and there were 2 high schools and 11 elementary and middle schools. Whenever a Jewish holiday occurred during the school year, they would automatically closed the schools because it was too much of a hassle to hire a temp teacher to fill in. One of her bosses was Jewish and he knew 5 languages and he was a sub at the United Nations when someone was ill. She would often get the calls asking for “brother Rudy” this is “brother so and so calling”. She would page him and he would drop everything and drive into the city to fill in. For years she thought wow, he has soo many brothers. It wasn’t until I started studying masonry that I realized that is the code for masons. I know there are Jews all over in the US as well as in other countries but I strongly feel NYC is the city that describes Revelation 18. The Kings of the Earth meet at the U.N. building. Verse 4 is a warning cry for the Jews to come out of her and flee. Once the rapture happens, the Jews will be persecuted and perhaps once the stock market crashes they will probably be blamed for it as well. Most Jewish people work on Wall Street - trading/stocks/bonds and they are in the advertising business, music business, Deli/restaurant businesses, fashion, jewelry, etc. Revelation 18 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: 12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. 14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. 15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! —— NYC is a seaport - Hudson River - there is a city called Babylon located on Long Island ... the ships pass by it before entering the harbor up the Hudson. —— 17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! 19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. 20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. 21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. ——- Broadway Shows/Opera/Musical plays/Music Industry ——- 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Well argued Geri7 Scholars are in agreement that there is nothing left prophetically to occur prior to the Rapture. There is no singular sign to herald the Rapture. The stage is set, all the props are in place. Just waiting for the curtain call. Just as the veil in the temple was wrent in two from the top down. So too the Rapture will come from above and leave nothing but desolation behind. TR I just noticed this ... 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. America’s mascot is the Bald Eagle. Or is it referring to the Masons since they embrace the Phoenix Bird? I’m still on the fence with what “hateful bird” its referring to or perhaps both birds? :unsure: Here are a few more things ... the breakdown of verse 13 starts to hit home: America has the wine vineyards and oil - olive groves in California. (If the oil is in reference to fuel oil - well then, America has that also) :whistle: America is still the #1 exporter of flour, wheat for the entire world America is known for its cattle/beef industry America is known for their gambling triple crown horse racing (Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont Stakes) America is known for its “chariots” auto industry America has embraced slavery right from its birth and behind the scenes human trafficking is still going on America influences the souls of men with its film industry, music, porn, gambling, sports, fashion (suits/jeans/sneakers), hair styles, cosmetics, perfume/cologne, etc. There are verses in the O.T. that Mystery Babylon reaches the stars ... many Bible scholars believe that is referring to a space program. The list then narrows down to just 4 countries right now to: Russia, USA, China and now Israel is getting in on the action Indeed. TR I do agree that nothing needs to happen for the rapture to take place. I've always been torn between America as the mystery Babylon, and the Vatican. But from what I'm gathering that you are saying is after the rapture God calls all the Jews home? So not an end times sign? Some Jews are being persecuted in other countries and out of fear they have packed up and relocated to Israel. I lean towards the rest who are still living in peaceful surrounding will stay until they are threaten and I think that occurs after the rapture. They will be targeted and blamed for the financial collapse, etc. because the Christians are gone. I believe the Vatican will play the part of the Religious side of Babylon. The way its looking from the article below ... I’m leaning towards whoever becomes the False Prophet will probably eventually make resident in Jerusalem vs. staying in Rome. This is an old but interesting article ... Israel-Vatican deal on land use said imminent The Times of Israel Deputy Foreign Minister Ze’ev Elkin was in Rome for high-level negotiations with Vatican officials over several outstanding land and building issues revolving around properties owned by the Holy See in Israel. Elkin visited the Holy See to continue decades-long talks on a comprehensive land deal between Israel and the Vatican, Maariv reported Thursday. Elkin told the Hebrew daily that, after meeting with the Vatican negotiating team and then separately with Pope Francis I, he thought an agreement would be signed by the end of the year, which would pave the way for the new pope’s promised visit to the Holy Land. Elkin’s meetings Wednesday were the first such negotiations in two years. The two main points of discussion revolved around Vatican requests to build two new centers in Israel. The Church has long lobbied to build a new church in a section of the Caesaria National Park where a church dedicated to St. Paul once stood. The area is now an archaeological and tourist site. Israel had previously refused the request, but now it seems Jerusalem will approve the construction of a center in the area, as long as the new complex does not have outward Christian religious symbols or resemble in its design a traditional church. The other main issue is a plot of Vatican-owned land on Mount Zion in Jerusalem, currently used as a parking lot, but desired by the Holy See for a church. Israel won’t allow the land to be used for construction, but has reportedly offered use of an alternative swath of land in the capital. A structure on Mt. Zion known as the Cenacle, where the Last Supper is believed to have taken place, will become open to Catholic worship once again, Italian newspaper La Stampa reported. The site will be administered by the Franciscan order but ownership will remain with Israel. The structure, also known as the “Upper Room,” rests above what’s believed to be King David’s Tomb, although many archaeologists differ on whether the Jewish king was actually buried there. La Stampa reported in late May that under the terms of a possible agreement, commercial activities run on church properties such as restaurants or souvenir shops will become subject to Israeli sales tax. The extensive properties owed by the church will continue to be exempt from paying property tax. Israel and the Vatican signed an agreement in 1993 dealing with property and tax rights for Roman Catholic Church properties in Israel, which paved the way for the opening of full diplomatic relations between the two states in 1994, but several outstanding issues remained, leading to on-again off-again negotiations over the years. “The negotiations took place in a thoughtful and constructive atmosphere… significant progress was made and the parties committed themselves to accelerate negotiations on the remaining issues, and look forward to an expedited conclusion in the near term,” a press release jointly issued by Israel and the Vatican said. During his time in Rome, Elkin is to meet with Italian Prime Minister Enrico Letta and Foreign Minister Emma Bonino to discuss issues of concern to both countries. Elkin is scheduled to continue on to Russia next week. - Fair Use- Indeed with the increase of anti-semitism it will only continue to worsen. Some way some how after the Rapture the anger will be focused against Jews again becoming the scapegoat of the world for all it's problems. Though they deny Christ, you would think they would be the last people to be blamed for the onsuing chaos after the Rapture. The increased hatred of Israel and the Jewish people in general will I believe force Jews around the world back to their homeland! Even with a peace initiative being enforced the world will hate Israel for the compromise of their hatred and scapegoating! Add to this the world-wide suffering and tribulations that shall commonly be experienced and this will marshal the ultimate betrayal of Israel. Then add the judgments of God. God's chosen people will only be saved by divine intervention in her favor, by God himself! Israel shall also be blamed for the sins of the whole world! TR
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Deputy FM, in Rome, says agreement could be signed this year; Holy See to receive permission for two new churches
By Gaviel Friske
June 6, 2013
