Kick the Can

I don't believe I have the metal for this so no can do. Just scrap the idea.  😉

Just kidding, of course. Will look into this after re-reading the chapters.

I read the two chapters with fresh eyes.

IMHO:

Matthew 24

1-8 is Pre Trib.

9-14 is Trib.

15-31 is Great Trib.

32-35 (Fig Tree) is Trib and Great Trib.

36-45 Can be applicable to all time.

Matthew 25

1-13 Pre Trib.

14-29 All time

31-45 Great Trib.

Please consider this: Matthew 24 and 25 are entirely contextually Israel centered and have nothing whatsoever to do with the church.  This is the theme of a twelve part series by Dr Andy Woods beginning with "The Rapture Sermon Series 21. Matthew 24-25 Explained - Part 1" and ending with ''Rapture Sermon Series 32. Matthew 24-25 explained, part 12."  It is a Sunday School teaching series at his church.  Andy is the Senior pastor of Sugar Land Bible Church SW of and in the area of Houston. TX.

This perspective has been personally very tension-relieving.  I cannot overstate that.  I strongly encourage you to go to these YouTubes.  Save time watching by setting the Subtitles to English(auto-generated) and the playback speed to 2x.  There is a lot of repetition from week to week so don't imagine you have to sit through twelve hours of teaching to get the message.

The presentations include these two slides:

I hope you'll consider starting it.

I have heard several of Andy Woods teachings; he is spot on. I have appreciated how he breaks things down in his preparation to defend the truth. In Bible college, one thing you learn is the timeframe of when a Biblical book was written, to whom it is written, and the purpose of it. I have not been one who has believed that the book of Matthew was written to speak to the church as a post trib rapture. It makes sense to me that the ones “taken” are possibly believers (Jew and Gentile) who survived the tribulation. It is obvious that the second coming is what is depicted in Matthew 24-25. My opinion.

Thank you for sharing, he is a fabulous defender of truth, could be because of his background in law :mdrmdr:

Thanks Tammie and Arthur, for responding.

I see these implications as profound!  Beyond profound! And I am not complaining, but I'm just really surprised that this post fell so flat!  Even the two pictures.

I guess it feels too preposterous to consider -- that we have believed and muddled through these two chapters forever.  I'm honestly floored!

I hope that at least one or two of my siblings here would risk just looking at what profound implications are found in there Dr Woods explanations.

THE CHURCH IS FOUND NOWHERE IN MATTHEW 24 OR 25 !!!!!!!

Does that honestly mean anything to us?   Ho hum?!?

My thoughts are ….

Matthew 24

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Church Age and continue in Tribulation 

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

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Church Age and continue in Tribulation 

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

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Church Age … because tribulation will only have 1 false prophet

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

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Church Age and continue in the Tribulation

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

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Tribulation life

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

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On the Fence with this one … perhaps Tribulation only? :unsure: 

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

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Mid Tribulation

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

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Church Age and continue in the Tribulation  

(time speeding up is happening NOW … 55 seconds per minute back in 2010 … now its … 28 seconds per minute 2022 … this is why the days are flying … with the evil covid agenda to depopulate the world God is speeding up the time … Jesus is coming soon)

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

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Church Age and continue in the tribulation since there have been false people claiming to be Christ and false prophets for decades …

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

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Tribulation   (Perhaps referring to the Chrislam worship center in the desert? And later defiles the Holy of Holies 3rd Temple on the Temple Mount)

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

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End of the tribulation 2nd Coming

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

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2nd half of the tribulation  - power grid goes down … no electricity … probably no printing of the calendars … how long will their battery on their iPhone or watch or ipad still work if they can’t recharge it?   No sun/moon or stars to shine … and with time speeding up even more …. people at the end of the tribulation period will not be able to tell what day or hour it is.

Revelation 16:10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain.  A prelude of what hell is going to be like.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

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After the 2nd coming … judgment of sheep from the goats … only the believers that endured to end of the tribulation will enter into the kingdom and repopulate the earth.  They will also be the guests at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb that takes place on the earth …

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

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Last half of the tribulation 

Matthew 25

Geri thank you, sincerely, for responding!  Would you please go to the YouTubu above at markers 9:00 to 10:30?  Could Dr Woods be absolutely correct, and not "...yes, but...?"

Again, thank you sincerely. :rose: :heart:

BTW - it took over an hour last night home from the hospital to type that.  It's that momentous to me.  I want to share it.

Ok … I viewed the clip from Andy Woods … I think Andy is making things complicated.  Matt 24 list the signs of how life on planet earth will be … NOT only during the church age but also during the tribulation period.

I agree the book of Matthew is written to the Jews and is probably the oldest book in the New Testament.   And yes, Jesus’ disciples were looking for the kingdom now on earth so … He was filling them in and giving a very broad over view of what the end of the age will be like.   That doesn’t mean the church era is not mentioned in Matt chapter 24 …  He just doesn’t say “the church” …  because … it wasn’t started yet until … Pentecost.  But yet some of the signs mentioned of how society will be has been happening all along during the church age dispensation and that chapter also describes … future last days for the tribulation period that the left behind will have to face and endure.

Pentecost (when the church was formed) kicks off the end of the age …

Then in 1948 Israel’s rebirth and having their land back is the starting point of God dealing once more with Israel as a nation  … and the clock started ticking … so we, as prophecy watchers, can gauge when the church age is coming to a close  … pre trib rapture is at the doors. :good:    Then the time of Jacob’s trouble begins and the blinders will be off and many Jews (1/3) will get saved.

Palm Sunday the Jews were praising Jesus and expecting Him to bring in the kingdom now because they wanted rescue from the Roman government.  But they didn’t understand the plan of God … Jesus was to die for the sins of the world first.  So many rejected Him because they were looking for a King and to have an easier life on planet earth and were not looking for a personal Savior to take away their sins.   So the next week they went loony and cried out for sinner Barabbas to be released and to have sinless Jesus  crucified.  Their rejection …. opened the doors for us (the Gentiles) to be grafted into the Family of God. :whistle:  Hence the Church Age started at Pentecost in Acts.

Luke is the writer of both books Luke and Acts.  And Luke was a gentile physician that had close ties with Paul.

Per Got Question. Org

Luke is not mentioned prior to the Lord Jesus's death and resurrection. Luke was a Gentile who never met Jesus as he was not an eye witness, unlike the other three Gospel writers who were all Jews. Sometime later Luke became a follower of Jesus. His earliest mention is in Philemon 2:4. He is also mentioned in Colossians 4:14 and 2 Timothy 4:11.

We do know he was a physician and the only Gentile to write any part of the New Testament.

Little is known about Luke, the author of the books of Luke and Acts in the Bible. We do know he was a physician and the only Gentile to write any part of the New Testament. Paul’s letter to the Colossians draws a distinction between Luke and other colleagues “of the circumcision,” meaning the Jews (Colossians 4:11). Luke is the only New Testament writer clearly identifiable as a non-Jew.

Luke was the author of the gospel of Luke and the book of Acts. Luke does not name himself in either of his books, but Paul mentions him by name in three epistles. Both Luke and Acts are addressed to the same person, Theophilus (Luke 1:3; Acts 1:1). No one knows exactly who Theophilus was, but we know that Luke’s purpose in writing the two companion books was so that Theophilus would know with certainty about the person and work of Jesus Christ (Luke 1:4). Perhaps Theophilus had already received the basics of the Christian doctrine but had not as yet been completely grounded in them.

Luke was a close friend of Paul, who referred to him as “the beloved physician” (Colossians 4:14). Perhaps Luke’s interest in medicine is the reason his gospel gives such a high profile to Jesus’ acts of healing.

Paul also refers to Luke as a “fellow laborer” (Philemon 1:24). Luke joined Paul in Troas in Asia Minor during Paul’s second missionary journey (Acts 16:6–11). Some scholars speculate that Luke was the “man of Macedonia” whom Paul saw in his dream (Acts 16:9). Luke was left in Philippi during the second missionary journey (Acts 17:1) and picked up again to travel with Paul in the third journey (Acts 20:5). Luke accompanied Paul on his journey to Jerusalem and Rome and was with him during his imprisonment there (2 Timothy 4:11). Luke’s vivid description of his travels with Paul in Acts 27 seems to indicate that he was well-traveled and well-versed in navigation.

Scholars have noted that Luke had an outstanding command of the Greek language. His vocabulary is extensive and rich, and his style at times approaches that of classical Greek, as in the preface of his gospel (Luke 1:1–4), while at other times it seems quite Semitic (Luke 1:5—2:52). He was familiar with sailing and had a special love for recording geographical details. All this would indicate that Luke was a well-educated, observant, and careful writer.

- Fair Use -

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Paul reveals when the rapture takes place …

I Thess 4:14-18
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Then  II Thess 2: 1- 12  is about the man of sin being revealed

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,(rapture already happened in I Thess 4:14-18)

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Also ….

If Jesus mentioned the church era in Matt 24 … can you picture His disciples saying “whaaaat?”  They wouldn’t of liked that their dream was being put on hold for another …  2,000 years … before the kingdom age will commence in a peaceful manner. They would of been disenchanted and went back to their old occupations … Jesus knew they couldn’t handle it so He just left out a few major pit stop details of the Church Age. B-)