Great discussion! I can understand your thinking Stephen however, even our efforts at holiness are futile because the law is contrary to it! We are but dust ( awaiting an upgrade 😁). I have been thinking lately about Solomon’s words about vanity Really apart from a Jesus we are nothing I hope all will find peace in Jesus, it’s really all about Him. I agree the rest is vanity..,, The Vanity of Wisdom 15 What is crooked cannot be made straight, 18 For in much wisdom is much vexation, Speaking of vanity, this verse is a little perplexing but all points back to God. He is sovereign, He provided a solution to our sin problem. We can be thankful and do our best but will not be “fixed” until the rapture/resurrection! Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Geri9, people use 1 John 1: 8-10 to justify a life of giving into sin whenever temptation comes knocking. This is not what John is teaching. While we do have unknown sin in us, to knowingly sin is unacceptable to God. It defiles us, and we will not inherit God's Kingdom. Nothing defiled will enter in. Our garments must be white, which is the righteousness of the Saints. The same Apostle John revealed to us: 1 John 3 [4] Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [5] And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [6] Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. [7] Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [8] He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (NKJV) KolleenWStone wrote: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. Jn 10" Yes, Kolleen, Jesus' sheep hear His voice and follow Him, with "follow" being the operative word. A person is not following Jesus if they are engaging in known acts of sin, i.e., works of the flesh. They are defiled before God. No one can serve two masters. We either serve Jesus (eternal life) or we serve sin (eternal death). It's one or the other. There's no middle ground. The hour is late, so it's time to chose who we will serve. James 1 [12] Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. [14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (KJV) Since we ALL sin and fall short of the Glory of God I guess we will ALL be in hell. NO ONE can come to the Father except through Jesus. And why is that? Because we ALL sin. If you do not believe that you sin then you are fooling yourself. Stephen, Are you open to anything the members and saints here have shared with you from the Word? Are you open to asking the Lord if He would want you to lay down your standing perspective for His, regarding the scriptures we have shared with you here? If you are closed to the Truth we've shared, there is nothing more to say. We are not here to argue! One of our few RN Rules: 6. This group believes in once saved always saved salvation. We believe believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and salvation alone qualifies you for the Rapture of the Church. Any posts which do not follow those guidelines are subject to removal, and those who persist may lose the privilege of posting. Perhaps Today, where in Scripture does it teach that future sins are forgiven? Nowhere. Truth is, Jesus gave strong rebukes to the Churches in Revelation that held to doctrines that He hated, which are doctrines that taught sin. Jesus is compassionate and merciful when we are bound by the power of sin, captives of Satan; but once He has set us free, He expects us to walk in His holy and righteous ways. Again, back to my original post, Jesus teaches us that nothing defiled will enter the Kingdom of God, and the works of the flesh defile us. Revelation 2 [14] But I [Jesus] have a few things against thee [Church of Pergamos], because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. [15] So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. [16] Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. (KJV) Revelation 2 [20] Notwithstanding I [Jesus] have a few things against thee [Church of Thyatira], because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. [21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. [22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. [23] And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. [24] But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. [25] But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. (KJV) Yohanan, you can hold to the doctrine of "God will grant eternal life to Christians who knowingly sin" if you want, but I don't accept that doctrine. After rebuking many in the Church of Thyatira for holding doctrines that upheld sin, this is what Jesus said: Revelation 2 [23] ... and all the churches shall know that I [Jesus] am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Hi Kolleen, I was unaware of that forum rule, so I do not have a voice here since the Word of God does not agree with that doctrine. I would like to stay on board, but not if I am held to that doctrine. Please let me know. God bless to everyone. Stephen, you will not be allowed to express at all any more, in any way shape or form, your views re: Gods saints going to hell, based in and on all that you have posted here. We are not in agreement with your works based perspective. For you to stay would leave an ongoing simmering open door for an argumentative spirit and division. God's Word has been shared with you here! You aren't open to receiving it. You are rejecting God's love, grace, mercy, and His promises as have been shared with you. You fall; we fall! But what we know is that however far we fall, God is always working to woo us back to walk with Him again, turning a wayward saint away from the temptations they've fallen in to, back to His sheep fold. He makes the way of restoration, by His Spirit, His laborers and divine connections of His choosing, that work on that persons heart to bring them back to Him. The sins you listed will not take a saved saint to hell! Because God is working on their behalf to restore them to Him. According to all the scriptures members have recited to you. God is able willing and ready to turn hearts back to Him. The only unforgiven sin is that of blasphemy! Psalm 139 O Lord, You have searched me and known me. 
12 I the Preacher have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 And I applied my heart[f] to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. 14 I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity[g]and a striving after wind.[h]
and what is lacking cannot be counted.
16 I said in my heart, “I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.”17 And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.
and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.
2You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
3You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
4For there is not a word on my tongue,
But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether.
5You have hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
6Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is high, I cannot attain it.
7Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
11If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
12Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.
13For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
17How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.
19Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!
Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.
20For they speak against You wickedly;
Your enemies take Your name in vain.
21Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22I hate them with perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.
23Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me, and know my anxieties;
24And see if there is any wicked way in me,
And lead me in the way everlasting.
