Rapture in early to late spring

This topic contains 46 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  Solo 2 hours, 49 minutes ago.

Viewing 22 posts - 26 through 47 (of 47 total)
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  • #129482
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    I’ve always found it a bit hard to believe that the feast of trumpets denotes the rapture and that Jesus is waiting for a man on earth somewhere to blow a shofar to enable him to act and that we’ll “all be changed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye” during some guy in Israel blowing a ram horn.

    Hahahaha! Well said.

    Votes of thanks [TakeMeHome, waragoodwarfare, Loz]
    #129483

    Readyornot
    Participant

    Hmm my post seems to have been deleted?

    Votes of thanks [Savedat33, waragoodwarfare]
    #129484

    Readyornot
    Participant

    I said “I’ve always found it a bit hard to believe that the feast of trumpets denotes the rapture and that Jesus is waiting for a man on earth somewhere to blow a shofar to enable him to act and that we’ll “all be changed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye” during some guy in Israel blowing a ram horn. I think it much more likely the last trumpet will be a massive event with an epic blast heard by all believers around the world! Also, the 100th shofar blast is done every single year – hardly unique. I think the scripture is quite clear that it is the VOICE of a trumpet, the trump of God that Jesus is waiting to act on when the Father says “come up here!”. I think gracethrufaith.com’s explanation that the trump of God are the 2 silver trumpets, the first one being at the giving of the law to Moses (Exodus 19:16), and the last trump is the at the rapture hence the name ‘last trump’, both are accompanied by the audible voice of GOD and both create a kingdom.”

    #129485
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    Hmm my post seems to have been deleted?

    Hmm, the same thing happened to me on Sunday. I posted, the thread had me listed as doing so but… no post.

    I figured it went where all loose change and left socks go :unsure:

    #129486

    Watchman35
    Participant

    I also favor the spring, for all of the reasons mentioned above; and I particularly like Palm Sunday because it the day before Passover begins and the rapture is a form of His “passing us over” of having to endure the tribulation.

    As I read your post, a thought came to my mind. Wouldn’t that be something if the Lord harpazoed the Church on Palm Sunday. Palm Sunday, at least by the calculation of a number of biblical scholars, was the final day of the 69th Week. Is it possible He would restart the clock of Israel for the 70th week on the same day that He stopped it? Things that make you go hmmmmm. :yes:

    BTW Love the posts on this thread. Very encouraging.

    John 14:1-3 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."

    #129489
    Tender Reed
    Tender Reed
    Participant

    Don’t make me come up there and get you Lord! :scratch: :rose: :whistle:

    TR

    #129490
    TakeMeHome
    TakeMeHome
    Participant

    When the fullness of the gentiles comes in is when I speculate the rapture to happen.

    Summer, Spring, Fall, Winter all sound good to me. Let’s roll Lord.

    Votes of thanks [churchgal, Loz, Trust His Timing]
    #129497

    Terry
    Participant

    If the September 23rd sign is indeed a sign (and again NO REASON not to think it is) then I submit it is a sign of the start of tribulation. Israel (the woman) in labor (sudden destruction, the time of Jacob’s trouble, the 70th week) and the Rapture is BEFORE then.

    Yes, it could be the sign of the start of the tribulation. And the Rapture is before then. All you said makes perfect sense.

    Votes of thanks [churchgal]
    #129512
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    As to whether the sign could signal the start of the Week depends on when you believe the Week ends. Personally, I don’t think that could be the case because I think the Week ends in the spring, specifically that the Second Coming will be in the month of Nisan. If that were to be the case, it would start sometime in the spring, as well. It can only start in the fall if it also ends in the fall.

    I look at it this way… Rev 12 is a midtrib chapter, and the more I study it, the more I believe that while there are layers to some of the text, the entire chapter very much relates to the midpoint of the Week. The great wonder that will appear in heaven isn’t going to need an extra-biblical source to figure out. Where does the mid-trib war in heaven take place? In the second heaven, the celestial heavens. Whatever this sign will be, it’ll signal a few different things which are to occur at the midpoint of the Week, one of which is the removal of Satan and his angels from the second heaven and their confinement to earth. What’s Satan’s favorite pastime? Twisting scripture. It’s an easy thing to do when so many people already love the fall so much, specifically the Feast of Trumpets. You should never need to use a source other than the Bible to interpret the Bible. That should be the first red flag. That it will literally be invisible except with the use of Stellarium is another red flag. Those who would follow this line of thought are being required to put a whole lot of faith in a computer program. Personally, I have no desire to do that.

    Rev 12 is about the Jews. One group flees, the other group gets devoured as soon as it is “born” and is seen in the throne room in Rev 15, also at the midpoint of the Week. They’re the Jewish overcomers, referenced in chapters 12-14, which will be resurrected at the end of the Week to also rule and reign with Christ (Rev 20:4). This is what Jesus was referring to in Matthew 24:15-22, if a remnant did not flee – the days shortened (in Jerusalem) for the sake of the elect – no flesh would be saved. They will be persecuted unto death as soon as Satan understands he has been kicked out of heaven and as soon as the Mark and image of the beast are introduced and refused. I may be wrong, and that’s cool if I am, but I’ll stand by my assessment that Sept 23, 2017 is nothing more than a distraction.

    Plus, didn’t Jesus pretty much tell us when the midpoint of the Week would be? You know, when He said pray that your flight not be in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day… Why mention either if irrelevant?

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    Votes of thanks [Savedat33, churchgal, Loz, TakeMeHome, lpullen]
    #129513
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    As to whether the sign could signal the start of the Week depends on when you believe the Week ends. Personally, I don’t think that could be the case because I think the Week ends in the spring, specifically that the Second Coming will be in the month of Nisan. If that were to be the case, it would start sometime in the spring, as well. It can only start in the fall if it also ends in the fall.

    Agreed, there has to be a seven year (precisely) difference. :yes:

    And this is why I avoid the “sign in the heavens” angle. Hahaha, I am easily impressed by cosmic activity because it’s so big and so awesome, how would I know what is and is not a sign in the heavens?

    But! I do know God’s Word is God’s Word. And all that He has said He will do, He will do. The disciples asked Him on the Mount of Olives for what the signs would be of His Coming and the End of the Age. And He told us what to look for… and now we see what He told us to look for and now we see that EVERYDAY prophetic events are happening faster and faster, becoming bigger and bigger in their implications. The Lord said: “When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” – Luke 21:28

    God has shown us, again and again; that He establishes the times and seasons. He establishes patterns and He follows the pattern He has set. You see His patterns in the Bible, you can see His patterns in creation (DNA is the “pattern of life”) our God is orderly and loves patterns. I would even suggest that the Lord uses patterns as His signature. It shows intelligence and not coincidence.

    It is a firm belief for me that what God has done in times past, He will do again at a future time because He is God: living and eternal. :yahoo: And we can put our full trust and faith in Him and His Word.

    Is the Lord coming to get us soon? You better believe it! How soon is soon? Idk, but I wouldn’t say that the Church’s time left is measured in years. I would be hard pressed to say months (although it could be) however WEEKS (pun intended) seems more feasible. :Hi:

    #129519
    churchgal
    churchgal
    Participant

    One question I have is this…I know that the 70th week will be exactly the amount of days that God has set for it to be…but does the covenant have to be the same exact days? I am certain that it is considerably overlapping but since the antichrist does not hold up his end of the bargain after the 3.5 years and does not finish the 7 year covenant…does that mean that the beginning of the 70th week and the covenant have to fall on the exact same dates? I am unsure and this is why I ask…humanly it doesn’t seem likely but of course with God all things are possible to carry out His will. Any input is greatly appreciated :yes:

    "and all creation sing with me now, lift up your voice and lay your burdens down...let all of creation sing with me now fill up the heavens let HIs glory resound, and every knee will bow, oh in every tongue praise the Father, praise the Son and the Spirit in One!!"

    Votes of thanks [TakeMeHome]
    #129520
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    does that mean that the beginning of the 70th week and the covenant have to fall on the exact same dates?

    They would have to yes, based on Daniel 9:27 telling us the Week begins with the confirmation of the covenant. The idea of the 7s lends back to the sabbatical cycles. It will be one cycle of 7. The idea of the AC’s covenant is that it’s merely a strengthening of something that already exists. Maybe strengthened for a period of time based on Israel’s participation being what it should be? The only conditional covenant was the Mosaic Covenant i.e. the law, of which the sabbatical cycles were part.

    Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

    Perhaps it will be based expressly on the sabbatical cycles. I don’t know. But since a temple is going to be rebuilt, it can’t really be assumed they’d only allow it to stand for 7 years then tear it down. Maybe it’s because we are told the final number of years will be 7 that we believe that would have to be included somehow. Maybe it’s not actually, because they will think they’re in the messianic age which will last much longer than 7 years. So maybe that’s not actually a part of it…

    To be honest, this is a big part of the reason I’m stuck on a Second Coming in the month of Nisan. The feasts start at the head of the year, which is Nisan. Thus, sabbatical cycles start then too…. and end then, too. Even if it’s not a full 7 years and only relative to a day count, it would still end at the same point prior to the new cycle beginning. And the new cycle would begin on Nisan 1 with the first feast falling on Nisan 14: Passover….. which is what Ezekiel 45 also tells us.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #129521
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    I came across this (in the discussion of patterns) and this brother makes excellent points using nothing but the Bible.

    He points out that if we are looking for the start of the 120th Jubilee year it will be Nisan 10 (2017) and even if people believe that the Jubilee year started in 2016 in Tishri he points out that Leviticus 25:9 says that the trumpet of Jubilee be sounded in the 7th month on the 10th day. Which, if one believes the Jewish New Year begins in the fall, would make Nisan 10 the 7th month and the tenth day.

    He makes excellent points about patterns: the entry into the promised land, Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem etc.

    *fair use for informational and educational purposes only*

    Votes of thanks [churchgal, TakeMeHome, Terry]
    #129522
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    He points out that if we are looking for the start of the 120th Jubilee year it will be Nisan 10 (2017) and even if people believe that the Jubilee year started in 2016 in Tishri he points out that Leviticus 25:9 says that the trumpet of Jubilee be sounded in the 7th month on the 10th day. Which, if one believes the Jewish New Year begins in the fall, would make Nisan 10 the 7th month and the tenth day.

    Eh… Ezekiel’s vision in Ezekiel 40:1 is on Nisan 10 in the jubilee year. But Abib/Nisan had already been made the head of the year when Leviticus 25 was written which proclaimed the jubilee to start in the 10th day of the seventh month, specifically on the Day of Atonement. The Day of Atonement is defined elsewhere as Tishri 10. Not saying Nisan 10 isn’t relevant, because it may well be, but the nature of the argument is invalid. Also, from a Biblical jubilee year calculation, 2016-17 is wrong. I think most people believe the rapture will occur within a jubilee year. But it’s Israel’s restoration that’s in view in that year, not the rapture. It’s a Second Coming thing. Isaiah 61 & Isaiah 63 say as much. I think he’s on the right track, but without having listened to his video, his premises are a bit shaky.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #129523

    jfelts8031
    Participant

    I’ve always noticed that God seems to be perfect in His planning. So when He starts something so He also finishes it. That being said, I’ve long ago come to the point of the believe Pentecost is the timing. The moment the Church started would be the moment it ends. Probably the highest watch time for me every year.

    #129525
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    He points out that if we are looking for the start of the 120th Jubilee year it will be Nisan 10 (2017) and even if people believe that the Jubilee year started in 2016 in Tishri he points out that Leviticus 25:9 says that the trumpet of Jubilee be sounded in the 7th month on the 10th day. Which, if one believes the Jewish New Year begins in the fall, would make Nisan 10 the 7th month and the tenth day.

    Also, from a Biblical jubilee year calculation, 2016-17 is wrong. I think most people believe the rapture will occur within a jubilee year. But it’s Israel’s restoration that’s in view in that year, not the rapture. It’s a Second Coming thing. Isaiah 61 & Isaiah 63 say as much. I think he’s on the right track, but without having listened to his video, his premises are a bit shaky.

    Hahaha, I agree. We are probably in a sabbatical year but definitely not the Jubilee. I just subtracted seven years.

    #129537

    Terry
    Participant

    Perhaps 2024 or 2025 is a Jubilee year. If either of these years is a jubilee year, I guess were not really meant to know. And I just realized that God wouldn’t want us to know the actual year that the jubilee year is, because then that would give everyone an idea what year Jesus would return to this earth, and what year the Rapture would occur in, seven years earlier. :yes:

    Votes of thanks [Savedat33, TakeMeHome, churchgal]
    #129538

    Terry
    Participant

    Don’t make me come up there and get you Lord! :scratch: :rose: :whistle:

    TR

    Your comment is too funny. :yes: I could just picture you somehow going up to heaven, pulling God out of heaven, and making Him come for us. An impossible feat to be sure. If it were only that easy.

    Votes of thanks [TakeMeHome, churchgal]
    #129545
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    Terry (and for anyone else interested),

    I bumped a great study Heather did about the final Jubilee, I would highly recommend it.

    (It’s also in book and kindle form on Amazon).

    MAIN DISCUSSION FORUM

    (Sorry Heather, I’m not meaning to put you on the spot but the Lord is using you powerfully and it clears up a lot of things.) :good:

    Votes of thanks [Terry, Heather R, TakeMeHome, churchgal]
    #129548

    Terry
    Participant

    Terry (and for anyone else interested),

    I bumped a great study Heather did about the final Jubilee, I would highly recommend it.

    Thank you for bumping this study, but I already saw the video she made on the final Jubilee.

    Votes of thanks [Savedat33, TakeMeHome, churchgal]
    #129551
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    I don’t mind being put on the spot 🙂 but I’ll also say, I fully believe the Lord plans for people to know the timing of His return. Perhaps not the rapture, but even so maybe. Definitely everything that comes afterward, though. After all, from the events of Bowl 6 forward, it’s clear they know when He is coming back. All we have to do is subtract 7 to be in the ballpark of the timing of the rapture.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #129742

    Solo
    Participant

    Can I ask in all sincerity please, that someone in our family provide a compelling reason as to why the Sept 23rd occurrence in the stars is not or shouldn’t be viewed as an extremely significant sign to us and is not directly related to Revelation 12?

    923 is a very important sign, just not for us, it’s for the Jews, who require a sign. We may be gone, long before the “sign”. But it may indicate a ‘year” for us. Pentecost is on my calendar for many reasons.
    Check put this vid by Lonnie Martin on YouTube. He has a great series of views that clear up a lot of misunderstanding because we sometimes fail to ask the “who what where when and why”.
    God Bless you, we may be meeting very soon.


    Votes of thanks [Savedat33, Terry]
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