Psalm 83 then into Ezekiel 38

Joel, you said the following above:

For Him to supernaturally step in would be to remove faith from the equation and would effectively end the age of grace.

Very good point!

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Something to note also is that if this is the Psalm 83 war it would seem likely that Israel would deplete much if not all of her Iron Dome defense missiles and ammunition given the campaign they had to wage against their enemies. So that would be taken into account by the Ezekiel coalition when deciding to strike and then ONLY God could truly save Israel.

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Excellent article, thanks Joel. I hope everyone reads it. At the risk of sounding haughty, I’ve read Psalm 83 umpteen times and every time I thought it can’t possibly be a prophecy of a future war. Of course, I didn’t have the courage of my conviction to say so publicly, for fear of being labelled argumentative and being jumped on like a chicken on a June bug.

As for Damascus, the writer has a good point. However, there’s is nothing to stop prophecy being fulfilled more than once.

The lesson here for all of us, myself especially, is to stick to the Word and what it actually says. We can ask the Holy Spirit to help us understand it. Sometimes, in my experience, that understanding comes quickly and sometimes it doesn’t. We don’t see the bigger picture as clearly as He does. At times I’ve received answers to that request years after I’ve prayed it.

I think it has something to do with the level of our spiritual maturity. We are also hampered by believing  popular, or mainstream doctrines. The beauty of this forum is that we can help one another. I think we should acknowledge that we all make mistakes — I know I do — and that we should have the confidence and the assurance that we won’t be treated like the village idiot when we do.

Even the best of the best commentators and outstanding students of the Word have been wrong about some things. I’ve learned so very much from people like Derek Prince and Chuck Missler and many others, and yet they were not infallible. My theory is that some of these scriptural truths are revealed on a schedule and we are fortunate to be living in a time when many of them are being revealed to us now.

Our responsibility, I think, is to be receptive.

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Amen Paul!  And thanks for the Lauer article, Joel.  I mostly pass on Psalm 83 discussions, but the subject does tend to rile me up some, especially given the certainty many people attach to their interpretations.  I just try to go back and remind myself what the Bible actually says… and what it doesn’t.

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Paul, I’ve always heard that it was the duck on the June bug, not the chicken. Although I will have to agree with what you said about Scriptural truths being revealed on a schedule.

It does make sense that America would be incapacitated due to the Rapture and that would be a good explanation why she doesn’t come to Israel’s rescue. Support for Israel is still strong enough now to make pResident Biden help Israel as much as he has. But if it weren’t for the billions sent to Iran by O’Biden in the first place, Israel wouldn’t be in the predicament that it is in with Hamas, from what I can understand.

I am so ready to get outta here; Im tired of all of the nonsense in the world. I am still holding out for December 12 when the 7 year agreement is signed. So perhaps any day now up until then. Not long to wait to see. I can’t wait to behold Him.

Here, there, or in the air!

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Thanks Kent; I stand corrected. Talking of ducks, I wish you all a blessed Thanksgiving…

…but that’s a turkey, right?

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Hi all! It’s been a while since I logged on so there are a lot of new faces   (that’s meant to be a “Hi” wave and not a  “Bye” wave

I have done quite a bit of digging into Revelation and Ezekiel lately and I have some thoughts that I would like to share if I may. I certainly don’t claim to “know” but I do think it is good for us to question things that we have been taught for years rather than just accepting someone else’s research as golden. And at the end of the day, if we disagree, we can just say we agree to disagree   Joel – I have not read your article on Psalm 83 yet but I will.

This is a BRIEF description of my thoughts:

First – I don’t think that Psalms 83 is a war. There is nowhere in the scripture that it describes the action of war. It is a conspiring by Israel’s enemies and it is a request to God for protection but it does not show ANY actual war. I believe the conspiring is what has been happening since Israel became a nation again. All the players in Psalm 83 have been involved in that at one time or another. I believe that the conspiring has led us to the events of today. I also believe that Israel heading toward Damascus, Iran or Hezbollah after they are done with Hamas will be the ‘hook in the jaw’ for Russia, Iran and Turkey (et al) to invade Israel (Ez 38).

Next – I am absolutely convinced that the rapture is at the 6th seal (yes, I am preTrib! ). I don’t think first 5 seals are not part of the tribulation. I can give you more on my research on that if you are interested so I won’t get into it now but there’s lots of reasons for that belief but one in particular is the skies rolling back…. that’s rapture.

If you’re still with me – If you read the 6th seal, then read Ez 38:19-20, I believe it’s describing the same event…. the rapture and the start of God’s wrath – the tribulation. Now look at Ez 38:18 … this will happen IN THAT DAY. That is the day of the invasion of Israel by Russia, Turkey and Iran. If I’m right, that means we’re no longer looking for ‘a day’ – we’re looking for an event. It sure does look like that event is getting close to happening. My eyes are on Israel, Iran, Turkey and Russia. It may take a while for things to unfold and that hook to be set but we are so close! 

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Hi NoFearJustFaith,

Glad to see you back.

A couple of comments on your post. You said  I am absolutely convinced that the rapture is at the 6th seal (yes, I am preTrib! ). But this is not a pre-trib view, it is actually what is called a pre-wrath view. A pre-trib view believes the Church will be raptured before the first Seal is broken. The first Seal is the appearance of the Rider on the White Horse who conquers and is bent on conquering and is considered by many to be the Antichrist. That has not happened yet. The second Seal is the Red Horse, war breaking out all over the globe. Peace is taken away. While there is war currently going on, there has always been war except for about 200 years of human history so what we are currently seeing is not a ringer for the second Seal. There is still peace in many places even though we are seeing a great rise in unrest around the globe. The third Seal is Black Horse and that is death from famine cause by war. The fourth Seal is the Pale Horse where a quarter of the worlds population is killed by war, famine, and wild beasts. That has not happened either. The seven Seals and seven Trumpets all take place before the midpoint of the tribulation. After the Abomination the Great Tribulation begins and God’s wrath is poured out. It will be the worst time in human history. But none of this has happened yet because the first Seal has not been broken yet. The Rider on the White Horse has not taken the world stage yet. Given that the Book of Revelation never mentions the Church again just prior to the opening of the first Seal we here at Rita believe the Church will be raptured before any of the judgments begin.

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Tiffany Scheuerman, [Nov 22, 2023 at 4:29 PM] this is from Telegram not me (Tiffany Scheuerman)

I am sharing this from Craig Bong on Facebook. He is probably one of the smartest people I have met about Biblical prophecies. This is from his group “Rapture Watchers.” He was asked to explain why he believes that the Rapture will take place in Decatur 2023 because they said it wasn’t clear to them and not understanding. Well here ya go folks, he has really laid it out in a way that you just see and truly understand.

Craig Bong: In summary, the rapture must occur with prophecy converging, not just at any given time and it must be fulfilled on God’s appointed time (the moedim, a day of trumpets)…. We are told this day will appear to tarry but to watch and wait for it. Psalms 2 gives us a clue to the event. Daniel 9:27 describes who will be present (the conference of the parties) or the many. II Thessalonians 2:1-3 tells us that the revelation of who the man is will be made known to those who are being gathered and the rebellion that is connected to him will be also made known, aka Agenda 2030. This man, a crowned king (Revelation 6:2), must be present in some fashion in order to confirm the covenant. I Thessalonians 5:3 gives us another piece of evidence, that there must be a declaration of Peace and Security (this day is scheduled to occur on December 12th). On the UN side of things, this day is their celebration day and the king’s speech will give it strength as per John Kerry’s statements. As far as God’s calendar of events, his appointed times come with the beginning of summer and the beginning of winter. Nowhere in Scripture does God add spring or fall. So, when does summer begin and when does winter really begin should be the question. Jesus sets the perimeter of the harvest season in John, with the clarification that there are 4 months from wheat harvest to the harvest. Since the day of trumpets is associated with the end of harvest, this fits the agricultural cycle with the season ending in November/December and the final harvest of pomegranates complete to which the priests and Solomon’s Temple were adorned. The confirming of the covenant of the parties is scheduled for December 11-12 with the parties and the strengthening of the agreement begins December 13th. This is described under the mechanism of the global stocktake that must take place and end after every 7 years. The final phase of this strengthening ahead of COP28 occurs from September 16th through December 12th. Since the implementation of the Paris Agreement in November of 2016, there has been 7 years completed come December 12th. The next cycle begins December 13th and continues for 2,550 days until the next “stocktake”….as that would occur at Armageddon, the tenth day after the new moon. Using the Hebrew calendar and the day count of the tribulation as being 2,550 days, one can match what is required of the lunar calendar, counting from the new moon to the 10th day after a new moon, 7 years apart, and using time and date . com determine the possibilities. There is no possible match of 2,550 days using the current Hillel calendar for the 2023 – 2030 timeline from September or thereafter, but using the Ur calendar (2100 BC) and the precise dates from the new moon, the match for the timeline is precise, from December 12th or 13th to December 5th, of 2030, the tenth day after a new moon, the precise amount of time is 2,550 days, the amount required to fulfill all the prophecies concerning the Tribulation.

MARTY BREEDEN

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Not Decatur but December :)

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Thank you for your thoughts, Yohanan! Like I mentioned, we can always agree to disagree and I certainly don’t mean to go against RITAN rules .

I did want to clarify one thing though. That my opinion is not pre-wrath if I don’t believe the tribulation starts until after the rapture. Just studying the first seals and what Revelation says about them. They don’t mention any action taken. The 4 horseman that are released only have the power to do those things but it doesn’t say this things actually happen. The restrainer is still keeping them in check until the rapture. At Seal 6, action starts to happen and we’ll be gone right before.

That’s what I see but I did just want to clarify why I say I’m pre-trib and not pre-wrath.

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Also I forgot to add that my point is the importance of Ezekiel 38 and the possible timing of the rapture being so close. Gary Hamrick is in agreement with that line of thought too.

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Just for consideration… one section of Scripture I lean heavily on is 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8.  If the first horseman is the antichrist as many think and the Restrainer is The Holy Spirit, particularly His ministry/dwelling through the Church, then there’s no doubt we’re out of here before the first seal.

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Okay I was able to find this old article on RaptureReady by John M. of the timeframe of the rapture event in the book of Revelation.  He clearly makes a strong case it happens here …

Revelation 4:1-2
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Revelation 4:1-2: Come Up Hither :: By John M
RaptureReady Oct 22, 2019 

The “door” opened in heaven is Jesus Himself. John 10:7 & 9 states, “Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” Jesus stated emphatically in John 14:6 that He is the only way to heaven. Jesus is the Savior of mankind. He is the Word of God (John 1:1).

The “trumpet” is the next key to the puzzle. I Thessalonians 4:13-18 states, “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”

The above verses in I Thessalonians 4 reveal that “the Lord Himself” will open the door to Heaven and will descend to the clouds. The “trump of God” will sound and the Church will receive their glorified bodies “immediately.”

I Corinthians 15:51-53 states, “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

The Apostle John was taken up in the spirit. The bodies of dead saints will be resurrected and their soul and spirits that are in heaven will be incorporated into their glorified bodies. The saints that are alive will be taken up and changed in less than a second. In a twinkling of an eye, the body corrupted with sin will be changed into a body like the Lord Jesus. 1 John 3:2-3 states, “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.” What a great promise. What a “comfort.” What a “blessed hope”!

The Apostle John was taken up in the spirit to view the Lord’s Day (Revelation 1:10) or the Day of the Lord, from Heaven. Revelation 3:10-11 states, “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.” The book of Revelation promises a blessing to those who read it (1:3) and promises the overcoming Church that they will be exempt from “the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world.” It is not a shock to see the Apostle John taken up in the spirit because he represents the true Church.

After the rapture of the Church or the removal of the Restrainer (the Holy Spirit that indwells the Church), God will turn His focus to Israel. God has made covenants with Israel, which will be fulfilled. Jesus will come suddenly for His bride. We will be transported to heaven until the indignation or tribulation is completed.

– Fair Use –

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I like Geri’s comment. I think Revelation 4 and 5 may give us a picture of how this comes about as shown to John.  The Church (as 24 elders) is shown judged and already crowned worshiping Lamb and there seems to be a time period for this.  After this wonderful praise and worship, the sealed book is opened by the Lamb. It is then the Day of the Lord commences with the seal judgements of four horseman beginning with the AC, the first horseman. The seals are not some mild prelude; this is the beginning of the Tribulation lasting for the first three and a half years and followed by the last three and a half years will be the Great Tribulation especially with the bowl judgements.

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I always have trouble posting links   my link above is Eric Stecklebeck and Rabbi Jason Sobel on the Ezekiel 38 war.

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