Psalm 83 then into Ezekiel 38

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    • #119183

        I wanted to share my thoughts on what we are seeing now and where I see it all heading next based on what our Bible says.  Forgive me if this is already posted a couple of pages a go.  I know we’ve all been discussing it in the Israel watch thread and the Rapture thread.  Isn’t it great that all the threads are converging together as we get closer to our Blessed Hope :)  !!!!  This isn’t a teaching so much as an observation and discussion amongst friends here.  If you see something that looks off, please point it out and let’s keep learning together and praising our God through our research!

        First a map of the Psalm 83 nations:


        Philistia is Hamas and where the war currently is, the others are positioned and ready to join in as soon as tomorrow it appears.  Notice that none of the major players are involved in this war, it’s all the proxy militias and groups that are immediately on Israel’s borders.

        I’m admittedly perplexed about the Ishmaelites though as I would expect that to be Saudi Arabia, but they clearly aren’t ready to fully jump into this conflict.  Could the Ishmaelites instead refer to Yemen and the Houthis as they are already active in this conflict?  Maybe this isn’t the Psalm 83 war even, always fun to look into it and discuss it though.

        I do think that Israel wins this war through natural means.  i.e. their soldiers and fighters and physical military assets win this war.  God of course supports them and is the real victor, but not through direct divine intervention like we will see in Ezekiel 38.  This I believe is because us we as the Church are still here and God has chosen his way of interacting with us to be through faith and His Word.  For Him to supernaturally step in would be to remove faith from the equation and would effectively end the age of grace.  Thus this conflict is in my mind the last possible event that can take place prior to the rapture.

        Followed in post 2

      • #119184

          post 2:

          Here’s the verse itself in the ESV translation:

          O God, Do Not Keep Silence
          A Song. A Psalm of gAsaph.
          83 O God, do not keep silence;

          hdo not hold your peace or be still, O God!

          2  For behold, your enemies imake an uproar;

          those who hate you have jraised their heads.

          3  They lay kcrafty plans against your people;

          they consult together against your ltreasured ones.

          4  They say, “Come, mlet us wipe them out as a nation;

          let the name of Israel be remembered no more!”

          5  For they conspire with one accord;

          against you they make a covenant—

          6  the tents of nEdom and othe Ishmaelites,

          pMoab and qthe Hagrites,

          7  rGebal and pAmmon and sAmalek,

          tPhilistia with the inhabitants of uTyre;

          8  vAsshur also has joined them;

          they are the strong arm of wthe children of Lot. Selah
          9  Do to them as you did to xMidian,

          as to ySisera and Jabin at zthe river Kishon,

          10  who were destroyed at aEn-dor,

          who became bdung for the ground.

          11  Make their nobles like cOreb and Zeeb,

          all their princes like dZebah and Zalmunna,

          12  who said, e“Let us take possession for ourselves

          of the pastures of God.”
          13  O my God, make them like fwhirling dust,1

          like gchaff before the wind.

          14  As hfire consumes the forest,

          as the flame isets the mountains ablaze,

          15  so may you pursue them jwith your tempest

          and terrify them with your hurricane!

          16  kFill their faces with shame,

          that they may seek your name, O LORD.

          17  Let them be lput to shame and dismayed forever;

          let them perish in disgrace,

          18  that they may mknow that you alone,

          nwhose name is the LORD,

          are othe Most High over all the earth.

        • #119187

            post 3

            It’s interesting that none of the nations mentioned in Psalm 83 are also mentioned in Ezekiel 38.  Also all of the 83 nations are ones that directly border Israel.  They all also happen to be nations that contain proxy groups for the big backer nations (i.e. the real players in this current conflict) while all of those big players are involved in Ezekiel 38.

            So it sets the stage where a victory in Psalm 83 would completely eliminate any bordering threat to Israel.  They might truly be a nation of unwalled villages, living in peace and security, and unsuspecting of an imminent attack.  This has always puzzled me as how could the nation of Israel ever really feel that way in order for Ezekiel 38 to take place when it knows that the nations listed in that attack are present and hate them as they currently do.

            I think the key here is that God never sets a time limit on how long Israel has to be in this state of peace, just that it happens to be the current state when the Ezekiel 38 war takes place.  Two things that would lead to that taking place though are a complete victory over all of it’s surrounding neighbors in Psalm 83 leaving no one left to immediately fight even if that’s only for one night.  (as in having just bested all of these proxy fighting forces, the last thing Israel would expect is for the backing nations to jump right in as well) and one global key even taking place completely changing the paradigm of power globally…

            The Rapture

          • #119188

              The way I potentially see if playing out is immediately after Psalm 83 happens or even towards the end of Psalm 83 the rapture happens.  This allows several things to happen all at once:

              1. Iran, Russia, Turkey, and the arab world are at full strength and angrier than ever having just lost all of their proxy units in Psalm 83 against Israel

              2. The US military is devastated with enough people being raptured out of it that it stands in confusion unable to act

              3. God has now turned the clock on the age of grace and now will act in a visible direct manner destroying Israel’s enemies in Ezekiel 38

              So now a map of Ezekiel 38:


              You know what I love most about these verses and maps, none of them are new!  They’ve been around for thousands of years and based upon the sovereignty of God they are absolutely going to come to pass.  (albeit maybe possibly in a way far different than what I’ve laid out above)

              So now with the Church gone, the US completely distracted, Israel in peace, and the Arab nations basically fully intact they think their final chance to destroy Israel has come and it completely would be save for God stepping in and declaring that yes, HE is still GOD!

            • #119189

                Interesting to note that out of this Ezekiel 38 conflict the only remaining powers will be the EU and the one world government lead by the antichrist and the kings of the east led by China perfectly setting the stage for what players we see present during the tribulation.  Also the world will be so terrified of what just happened in Israel and so scared of war in general that a 7 year peace will easily follow.

                Which leads to a grand delusion that ties in ever so nicely with all of the above that many have discussed on here.  The antichrist will claim that it wasn’t a rapture nor was it God intervening in Israel, but that it was aliens that stepped in to remove the Christians and stopped the aggression from the north.  The Christians because the aliens knew that we are the only group that wouldn’t follow and cooperate with the new world order and the aggression from the north taking place because there must now be peace and cooperation in this new world order.


                I honestly believe that we are watching the Psalm 83 war beginning now and that the timeline between it and our Rapture will be a very short one, with an immediately following Ezekiel 38 war the moment we leave which will kick off the 7 years tribulation with a peace treaty in Jerusalem.


                See you all soon :)  Maranatha!

              • #119192

                  Joel, you said the following above:

                  For Him to supernaturally step in would be to remove faith from the equation and would effectively end the age of grace.

                  Very good point!

                • #119207

                    Something to note also is that if this is the Psalm 83 war it would seem likely that Israel would deplete much if not all of her Iron Dome defense missiles and ammunition given the campaign they had to wage against their enemies. So that would be taken into account by the Ezekiel coalition when deciding to strike and then ONLY God could truly save Israel.

                  • #119661

                      an opposite view from an author I really like that states that Psalm 83 isn’t a prophecy like Ezekiel 38 is.

                      Definitely worth a read either way.  He quotes Amir Tsarfati in it quite a few times:



                    • #119670
                      Paul R

                        Excellent article, thanks Joel. I hope everyone reads it. At the risk of sounding haughty, I’ve read Psalm 83 umpteen times and every time I thought it can’t possibly be a prophecy of a future war. Of course, I didn’t have the courage of my conviction to say so publicly, for fear of being labelled argumentative and being jumped on like a chicken on a June bug.

                        As for Damascus, the writer has a good point. However, there’s is nothing to stop prophecy being fulfilled more than once.

                        The lesson here for all of us, myself especially, is to stick to the Word and what it actually says. We can ask the Holy Spirit to help us understand it. Sometimes, in my experience, that understanding comes quickly and sometimes it doesn’t. We don’t see the bigger picture as clearly as He does. At times I’ve received answers to that request years after I’ve prayed it.

                        I think it has something to do with the level of our spiritual maturity. We are also hampered by believing  popular, or mainstream doctrines. The beauty of this forum is that we can help one another. I think we should acknowledge that we all make mistakes — I know I do — and that we should have the confidence and the assurance that we won’t be treated like the village idiot when we do.

                        Even the best of the best commentators and outstanding students of the Word have been wrong about some things. I’ve learned so very much from people like Derek Prince and Chuck Missler and many others, and yet they were not infallible. My theory is that some of these scriptural truths are revealed on a schedule and we are fortunate to be living in a time when many of them are being revealed to us now.

                        Our responsibility, I think, is to be receptive.


                      • #119671

                          Amen Paul!  And thanks for the Lauer article, Joel.  I mostly pass on Psalm 83 discussions, but the subject does tend to rile me up some, especially given the certainty many people attach to their interpretations.  I just try to go back and remind myself what the Bible actually says… and what it doesn’t.

                        • #119678

                            Paul, I’ve always heard that it was the duck on the June bug, not the chicken. Although I will have to agree with what you said about Scriptural truths being revealed on a schedule.

                            It does make sense that America would be incapacitated due to the Rapture and that would be a good explanation why she doesn’t come to Israel’s rescue. Support for Israel is still strong enough now to make pResident Biden help Israel as much as he has. But if it weren’t for the billions sent to Iran by O’Biden in the first place, Israel wouldn’t be in the predicament that it is in with Hamas, from what I can understand.

                            I am so ready to get outta here; Im tired of all of the nonsense in the world. I am still holding out for December 12 when the 7 year agreement is signed. So perhaps any day now up until then. Not long to wait to see. I can’t wait to behold Him.

                            Here, there, or in the air!


                          • #119700
                            Paul R

                              Thanks Kent; I stand corrected. Talking of ducks, I wish you all a blessed Thanksgiving…

                              …but that’s a turkey, right? ;-)

                              • #119709

                                  LOL … It’s a bird … close enough …

                                  Instead of slave cooking a turkey …  tomorrow I’m having Chicken Pot Pie.  I recently discovered this brand …  its the best I’ve ever tasted including all the restaurants.  Nothing comes close to this.  You can get it in the frozen section in most grocery stores … just 45 minutes in the oven and prepare for heavenly goodness … mmmmmm


                              • #119711

                                  Hi all! It’s been a while since I logged on so there are a lot of new faces :bye:   (that’s meant to be a “Hi” wave and not a  “Bye” wave :-)


                                  I have done quite a bit of digging into Revelation and Ezekiel lately and I have some thoughts that I would like to share if I may. I certainly don’t claim to “know” but I do think it is good for us to question things that we have been taught for years rather than just accepting someone else’s research as golden. And at the end of the day, if we disagree, we can just say we agree to disagree :heart:   Joel – I have not read your article on Psalm 83 yet but I will.


                                  This is a BRIEF description of my thoughts:

                                  First – I don’t think that Psalms 83 is a war. There is nowhere in the scripture that it describes the action of war. It is a conspiring by Israel’s enemies and it is a request to God for protection but it does not show ANY actual war. I believe the conspiring is what has been happening since Israel became a nation again. All the players in Psalm 83 have been involved in that at one time or another. I believe that the conspiring has led us to the events of today. I also believe that Israel heading toward Damascus, Iran or Hezbollah after they are done with Hamas will be the ‘hook in the jaw’ for Russia, Iran and Turkey (et al) to invade Israel (Ez 38).


                                  Next – I am absolutely convinced that the rapture is at the 6th seal (yes, I am preTrib! :yes: ). I don’t think first 5 seals are not part of the tribulation. I can give you more on my research on that if you are interested so I won’t get into it now but there’s lots of reasons for that belief but one in particular is the skies rolling back…. that’s rapture.


                                  If you’re still with me – If you read the 6th seal, then read Ez 38:19-20, I believe it’s describing the same event…. the rapture and the start of God’s wrath – the tribulation. Now look at Ez 38:18 … this will happen IN THAT DAY. That is the day of the invasion of Israel by Russia, Turkey and Iran. If I’m right, that means we’re no longer looking for ‘a day’ – we’re looking for an event. It sure does look like that event is getting close to happening. My eyes are on Israel, Iran, Turkey and Russia. It may take a while for things to unfold and that hook to be set but we are so close!  :flyup: :flyup: :flyup:

                                • #119750

                                    Hi NoFearJustFaith,

                                    Glad to see you back.

                                    A couple of comments on your post. You said  I am absolutely convinced that the rapture is at the 6th seal (yes, I am preTrib! ). But this is not a pre-trib view, it is actually what is called a pre-wrath view. A pre-trib view believes the Church will be raptured before the first Seal is broken. The first Seal is the appearance of the Rider on the White Horse who conquers and is bent on conquering and is considered by many to be the Antichrist. That has not happened yet. The second Seal is the Red Horse, war breaking out all over the globe. Peace is taken away. While there is war currently going on, there has always been war except for about 200 years of human history so what we are currently seeing is not a ringer for the second Seal. There is still peace in many places even though we are seeing a great rise in unrest around the globe. The third Seal is Black Horse and that is death from famine cause by war. The fourth Seal is the Pale Horse where a quarter of the worlds population is killed by war, famine, and wild beasts. That has not happened either. The seven Seals and seven Trumpets all take place before the midpoint of the tribulation. After the Abomination the Great Tribulation begins and God’s wrath is poured out. It will be the worst time in human history. But none of this has happened yet because the first Seal has not been broken yet. The Rider on the White Horse has not taken the world stage yet. Given that the Book of Revelation never mentions the Church again just prior to the opening of the first Seal we here at Rita believe the Church will be raptured before any of the judgments begin.

                                  • #119759
                                    Tiffany Scheuerman

                                      Tiffany Scheuerman, [Nov 22, 2023 at 4:29 PM] this is from Telegram not me (Tiffany Scheuerman)

                                      I am sharing this from Craig Bong on Facebook. He is probably one of the smartest people I have met about Biblical prophecies. This is from his group “Rapture Watchers.” He was asked to explain why he believes that the Rapture will take place in Decatur 2023 because they said it wasn’t clear to them and not understanding. Well here ya go folks, he has really laid it out in a way that you just see and truly understand.

                                      Craig Bong: In summary, the rapture must occur with prophecy converging, not just at any given time and it must be fulfilled on God’s appointed time (the moedim, a day of trumpets)…. We are told this day will appear to tarry but to watch and wait for it. Psalms 2 gives us a clue to the event. Daniel 9:27 describes who will be present (the conference of the parties) or the many. II Thessalonians 2:1-3 tells us that the revelation of who the man is will be made known to those who are being gathered and the rebellion that is connected to him will be also made known, aka Agenda 2030. This man, a crowned king (Revelation 6:2), must be present in some fashion in order to confirm the covenant. I Thessalonians 5:3 gives us another piece of evidence, that there must be a declaration of Peace and Security (this day is scheduled to occur on December 12th). On the UN side of things, this day is their celebration day and the king’s speech will give it strength as per John Kerry’s statements. As far as God’s calendar of events, his appointed times come with the beginning of summer and the beginning of winter. Nowhere in Scripture does God add spring or fall. So, when does summer begin and when does winter really begin should be the question. Jesus sets the perimeter of the harvest season in John, with the clarification that there are 4 months from wheat harvest to the harvest. Since the day of trumpets is associated with the end of harvest, this fits the agricultural cycle with the season ending in November/December and the final harvest of pomegranates complete to which the priests and Solomon’s Temple were adorned. The confirming of the covenant of the parties is scheduled for December 11-12 with the parties and the strengthening of the agreement begins December 13th. This is described under the mechanism of the global stocktake that must take place and end after every 7 years. The final phase of this strengthening ahead of COP28 occurs from September 16th through December 12th. Since the implementation of the Paris Agreement in November of 2016, there has been 7 years completed come December 12th. The next cycle begins December 13th and continues for 2,550 days until the next “stocktake”….as that would occur at Armageddon, the tenth day after the new moon. Using the Hebrew calendar and the day count of the tribulation as being 2,550 days, one can match what is required of the lunar calendar, counting from the new moon to the 10th day after a new moon, 7 years apart, and using time and date . com determine the possibilities. There is no possible match of 2,550 days using the current Hillel calendar for the 2023 – 2030 timeline from September or thereafter, but using the Ur calendar (2100 BC) and the precise dates from the new moon, the match for the timeline is precise, from December 12th or 13th to December 5th, of 2030, the tenth day after a new moon, the precise amount of time is 2,550 days, the amount required to fulfill all the prophecies concerning the Tribulation.

                                      MARTY BREEDEN

                                    • #119760
                                      Tiffany Scheuerman

                                        Not Decatur but December :)

                                      • #119778

                                          Thank you for your thoughts, Yohanan! Like I mentioned, we can always agree to disagree and I certainly don’t mean to go against RITAN rules :negative: .


                                          I did want to clarify one thing though. That my opinion is not pre-wrath if I don’t believe the tribulation starts until after the rapture. Just studying the first seals and what Revelation says about them. They don’t mention any action taken. The 4 horseman that are released only have the power to do those things but it doesn’t say this things actually happen. The restrainer is still keeping them in check until the rapture. At Seal 6, action starts to happen and we’ll be gone right before.


                                          That’s what I see but I did just want to clarify why I say I’m pre-trib and not pre-wrath. :rose:

                                        • #119779

                                            Also I forgot to add that my point is the importance of Ezekiel 38 and the possible timing of the rapture being so close. Gary Hamrick is in agreement with that line of thought too.

                                          • #119782

                                              Just for consideration… one section of Scripture I lean heavily on is 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8.  If the first horseman is the antichrist as many think and the Restrainer is The Holy Spirit, particularly His ministry/dwelling through the Church, then there’s no doubt we’re out of here before the first seal.

                                            • #119786

                                                Okay I was able to find this old article on RaptureReady by John M. of the timeframe of the rapture event in the book of Revelation.  He clearly makes a strong case it happens here …

                                                Revelation 4:1-2
                                                After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

                                                And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.


                                                Revelation 4:1-2: Come Up Hither :: By John M
                                                RaptureReady Oct 22, 2019 

                                                The “door” opened in heaven is Jesus Himself. John 10:7 & 9 states, “Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” Jesus stated emphatically in John 14:6 that He is the only way to heaven. Jesus is the Savior of mankind. He is the Word of God (John 1:1).


                                                The “trumpet” is the next key to the puzzle. I Thessalonians 4:13-18 states, “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”

                                                The above verses in I Thessalonians 4 reveal that “the Lord Himself” will open the door to Heaven and will descend to the clouds. The “trump of God” will sound and the Church will receive their glorified bodies “immediately.

                                                I Corinthians 15:51-53 states, “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

                                                The Apostle John was taken up in the spirit. The bodies of dead saints will be resurrected and their soul and spirits that are in heaven will be incorporated into their glorified bodies. The saints that are alive will be taken up and changed in less than a second. In a twinkling of an eye, the body corrupted with sin will be changed into a body like the Lord Jesus. 1 John 3:2-3 states, “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.” What a great promise. What a “comfort.” What a “blessed hope”!

                                                The Apostle John was taken up in the spirit to view the Lord’s Day (Revelation 1:10) or the Day of the Lord, from Heaven. Revelation 3:10-11 states, “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.” The book of Revelation promises a blessing to those who read it (1:3) and promises the overcoming Church that they will be exempt from “the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world.” It is not a shock to see the Apostle John taken up in the spirit because he represents the true Church.

                                                After the rapture of the Church or the removal of the Restrainer (the Holy Spirit that indwells the Church), God will turn His focus to Israel. God has made covenants with Israel, which will be fulfilled. Jesus will come suddenly for His bride. We will be transported to heaven until the indignation or tribulation is completed.

                                                – Fair Use –

                                              • #119800

                                                  I like Geri’s comment. I think Revelation 4 and 5 may give us a picture of how this comes about as shown to John.  The Church (as 24 elders) is shown judged and already crowned worshiping Lamb and there seems to be a time period for this.  After this wonderful praise and worship, the sealed book is opened by the Lamb. It is then the Day of the Lord commences with the seal judgements of four horseman beginning with the AC, the first horseman. The seals are not some mild prelude; this is the beginning of the Tribulation lasting for the first three and a half years and followed by the last three and a half years will be the Great Tribulation especially with the bowl judgements.

                                                • #119823


                                                  • #119834

                                                      I always have trouble posting links :unsure:   my link above is Eric Stecklebeck and Rabbi Jason Sobel on the Ezekiel 38 war.

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