Evidently, there has been some controversy over an interpretation of an ancient papyrus by Harvard theologins...trying to state Jesus was married while on earth. This has become a topic on FB really, really, are they going to be so naive. This is blasphemy. This was on MSNBC. Has anyone seen this?
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Papyrus heresey
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2 votes of thanks [Jan, teen queen]
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I saw the news this morning. There is nothing new under the sun. Athiests have stepped up their attack lately. It is just another sign of the nearness of Christ's second coming.
They need to learn that Jesus is a very popular name in the first century, and not to misidentify Jesus of Nazareth, assuming that piece of paper "is real".Posted 8 months ago #
2 votes of thanks [Jan, teen queen] -
It's from hundreds of years after Christ, it's a tiny fragment, and it has no credibility. But it did occur to me that perhaps the Coptic translation of Christ speaking of His Bride didn't translate well. I think He spent significant time speaking of Himself as Bridegroom, but I don't recall Him speaking directly of His Bride as recorded in the Gospels. For me it's a insignificant find of dubious origin, but I can see how the enemies of the Gospel would rejoice to think they've find evidence that they're not the idiots we know them to be.
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Gal 3:27Posted 8 months ago #
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2nd Coming, I was shocked to see this However, the one classmate of mine that I could carry on a conversation with about this is a Catholic Priest. No one else will stand up for the truth even though their parents spent all that money putting them through private school for six years. They are afraid to say Jesus, they are afraid to say I love Jesus. something is wrong here!!!!!
So, Father Paul and I said that Jesus is the Bridegroom for the Church and would never have been married on earth. I realize that is common knowledge for us at RITA Now but lord, is it scary how people are in the dark.
Posted 8 months ago #
2 votes of thanks [Janet, teen queen] -
Thom, I will get back to you on that. I want to relay what Paul said on this.
Posted 8 months ago #
1 vote of thanks [TX Thom] -
My husband just told me about this -- since he's a backslidden Christian, I hope he doesn't try to come up with some excuse of "How do we *know* He wasn't married? Maybe He was" mumbo jumbo. He did mention it was from a few hundred years after the Gospels, and thus under scrutiny, but thought it was interesting.
It's rather pathetic, Satan's attempts to discredit our Lord. You might be picking off the little weak ones, Nasty Boy, but we who KNOW our inheritance in Christ will NOT be moved! And you should be afraid of us. Very, very afraid. The gates of hell will NOT prevail against the true Church of Yeshua HaMashiach! Praise the Lord! \O/
~~Becka
Whom have I in heaven but You? And there is nothing on earth that I desire besides You. My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. ~~Psalm 73:25-26 (ESV)Posted 8 months ago #
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In what other situation would researchers trust the words of a document created hundreds of years after the events occurred over the testimony of contemporary eye-witnesses?
Posted 8 months ago #
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In what other situation would researchers trust the words of a document created hundreds of years after the events occurred over the testimony of contemporary eye-witnesses?
None -- but we all know scholarly rules don't apply to Christianity.
Actually, I believe there is a gap of multiple hundreds of years for many of the classical Greek writers: several times as long as the gap between the time when the Apostles wrote the books of the NT and the earliest surviving NT manuscripts. The NT is actually quite well documented ... but you'd never know that from critics of the Bible.
I remember a scene in an old Helen MacInnes spy novel where the hero said of one of those Greeks -- most likely Aristophanes -- that scholars knew he'd written x-number of plays (I looked it up: it's 40), but only 11 comedies survived. From those 11, he seems to have been what we would call a conservative. But we actually know nothing about Aristophanes's attitudes, because it may well be that the surviving 11 were not typical. They may even have been atypical: someone may have "edited" the collection to suit their politics: destroyed the plays that ridiculed conservative ideas and the conservative figures of his day.
Posted 8 months ago #
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I will no longer continue this subject on FB with my classmates, I am just shocked at how they trash the bible. I understand the apostasy of churches is taking place but, this has risen to a new level of disbelief.
As background info, I went to a private Catholic High School grades 7-12, one of my classmates, a very kind man did become a priest and will share with us his thoughts on FBwhen something like this comes up. Of course he does not argue when I bring in a Jewish side to this type of conversation which I always do but, I do not want to offend the Catholic Church I just disagree with the separation of the church from the Jews by Constantine. I am rambling anyway, here is what he said.....
"There were plenty of false ideas circulating about Jesus, even in the time of St Paul and St John. This just shows what we already know: that such fake ideas were rampant, especially in the 4th century. Likely this was an Arian text ( since its Coptic Egyptian as was Arius). Because the Arians denied the divinity of Christ claiming that he had a wife/children, despite unbroken testimony from the apostles onward, was just another method to diminish his divinity. The first part of John's gospel was written primarily to defend against such attacks. So, its kind of silly that the author claims this was found in the Gospel of John. Verdict: Nice historical evidence of heresies we already know about."
Amen
Posted 8 months ago #
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Becka, girrrrllllll! I FELT your post! I can't stand to hear someone speak against the integrity of my Lord and His word. It truly "burns my biscuits"! (completely righteous anger, completely)
But on a weirdly positive note, it is just more evidence of the spirit of Anti-christ.....going "media". It would appear they are getting rather BOLD with it, doesn't it?
It is only a matter of time before someone on a global scale challenges the Most High. Prayerfully, we will be watching that from above.
Posted 8 months ago #
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I almost hate to say this, but in Jewish custom after the engagement the betrothed people were considered to be essentially married, at least to the point of needing a divorce to call off the wedding as I understand it. Yeshua had completed the engagement ceremony at the Passover with the Bride Price paid on the cross. We are His Betrothed. So He kinda, sorta, does have a wife - just not in the way people now adays think of it. And certainly not a consummated marriage at this time in any way. And it's rather a corporate affair as well.
I do think this is good historical evidence of a known heresy which has no bearings on our faith. I just wouldn't want any of His Bride to go around insisting too loudly that He has no Bride. If my sweetie was telling people that, it would hurt my feelings. And I don't want to hurt His.
Posted 8 months ago #
2 votes of thanks [Karla Jo, teen queen] -
I do not believe this is true in any way, so don't jump all over me! I know it is a ploy to discredit the Bible, but what if Jesus was married (which I do not believe). Wouldn't He have said so and shown us how to be the best husband ever? Would He not have been the best example of a husband for men to follow? Imagine if He had been a father. He would have shown us how to be a perfect father to our children. He would have had that included in the Bible, if it were true, not excluded. I don't believe He would have ever shyed away from a lesson like that.
“I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.” — Romans 8:18Posted 8 months ago #
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W&W, you know He would have made a great dad. If He were left to spend time with His kids instead of being called to minister to an entire world. On the other hand, considering how hard it would be to be a PK, can you imagine having Almighty God for a father? Granted He could kiss your boo-boo's goodbye really, really well. Could you imagine trying to go on your first date and having God interview the prospective date regarding his intentions for His child?
Better to do it this way, where He is able to minister to the whole world at once and enjoy being a spiritual husband to a Bride made up of millions/billions simultaneously as only God could do. That's the nice part of being omnipresent and omniscient. Dividing His attention doesn't diminish it at all.
Posted 8 months ago #
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Well, the child could definitely say, "My Dad is tougher than your dad," huh?
But I couldn't agree with you more. How wonderful that we are all His children, and that His followers are His Bride. Of course, as usual, He did it all in the perfect way.
Posted 8 months ago #
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Just heard Neil Cavuto discussing this with a Christian pastor on Fox....cannot even begin to describe how this upset me :(
Come Lord~
Isaiah 54:9~ For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.Posted 8 months ago #
1 vote of thanks [teen queen] -
Maria, they have a lot of people who are saying it's a fake. It doesn't have provenance to back up their claims, and the Egyptian antiquities authorities are saying that if it were indeed real, they would have known about it beforehand, which they didn't.
Quote From the Article:
Fair Use For Educational and Discussion Purposes
Another participant at the congress, Alin Suciu, a papyrologist at the University of Hamburg, was more blunt.
"I would say it's a forgery. The script doesn't look authentic" when compared to other samples of Coptic papyrus script dated to the 4th century, he said.
God Bless and Love,
FWJohn 6:28-29
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”Posted 8 months ago #
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This is just another document written by Gnostic's to try and discredit the deity of Jesus.
Gnosticism was a heresy of the early first century until the fourth century. Their belief that Jesus was just a good man was Satan's attempt to nullify the redemption plan of God by presenting a fantasy gospel of Jesus in which He is just a normal married man like you and me with no power to save.I would rather believe the written testimonies of dozens of the friends of Jesus who knew Him personally and they will tell you there was no Mrs. C.
.Posted 8 months ago #
2 votes of thanks [Shellayne, teen queen] -
Thank you for that info everyone, I still cannot pursue this conversation with friends who were sent to a school to become supposedly, messengers of the faith, the simplicity of faith in our salvation, by our Messiah makes many believe that we are naive and ignorant. You can have all the degrees in the world but, if you do not believe the the entire bible is the sole word of God then, you are just believing in half of Jesus and Lord knows at this time in history, we need all of Jesus , Amen.
Posted 8 months ago #
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