This past Sunday night, I heard trumpets and angels singing during our service!  Remind you that a tambourine is our only instrument along with our voices, hands, and two microphones!  The presence of the Lord was with us! We were singing, How Great Is Our God, and I heard trumpets accompanying us during worship!  I wanted to look around but I couldn't.  While worshipping, I heard angelic voices singing thunderously! The voices were not human at all!  I asked the Lord about the trumpets and you know what He told me?!  "I am tuning your ears so you can hear my archangel blow the trumpet according to my Word.  Tell my people to make sure they have oil in their lamps." 

I almost fell out!  What about the angels singing?  The Lord said that we were all in accord and he allowed me to hear what normally goes on in spirit filled services.  Jesus is soon to return!  Could August be our month??  Praise the Lord!

And 4. God's people already have oil in their lamps.  We already have the Holy Spirit in us.  Why would God want you to warn us to make sure we have what we already have?  It would make more sense for God to have told you to warn those who are not his people.  Again no offense, but why would we need a warning from you that is already given to us in God's word?

1) Rev 5:8 - the four living creatures aka cherubim sang a new song. Luke 2:13 - myriad of angels praising God and saying praises.

2) The Bible is full of people to whom God spoke or visions given which were not shared by all. If everyone had the same vision at the same time, that would be distinctive and unique. He gives to each as He purposes.

3) Did God say He was testing His system? No. Of course He doesn't need to test.

5) I gotta say though, Terrence, that tuning your ear to hear the trumpet blow doesn't make a lot of sense in the natural. Dead dust is going to hear that trumpet blow.

4) "Tell my people to make sure they have oil in their lamps." My understanding is that if we are His people, then the oil is in the lamps already. If the oil isn't there, we aren't His. I am confused on this point.

Bryan, you added to your comments while I was typing mine. Note the changed numbering to make them consistent.

I agree with you Thom.  I will go deeper in prayer and ask the Lord more clarity on this experience.  

Job 38:6-7 says the "morning stars" sang at the creation of the world and the sons of God shouted for joy.  We know "morning stars" is poetic language, no matter which way you cut it.  Did the author mean actual stars or angels?  We do know heavenly bodies make certain "musical" noises nowadays, but I'm not sure the author of the most ancient book in the Bible meant actual stars.  It would seem it's meaning is "angels", since it's obvious the sons of God are angels as well.

I am not in the camp of "if it's not in the Bible it isn't true" camp.  I mean, the Bible never mentions Peter eating breakfast, either.  I'm sure he likely ate in the mornings.  The Bible doesn't mention Christ doing His laundry, but certainly He had to wash to keep the Law.  Just because it doesn't record His childhood doesn't mean He didn't play games with His friends.  The word "Trinity" isn't in there, either. 

Paul tells us to make music in our hearts, with spiritual songs.  We are a musical bunch.  Many times the Bible DOES say the Saints will sing.  But I do not believe Heaven was a quiet place before people started filing in.  Even birds and dolphins sing.  But not angels?  Even planets and stars "sing"... But not angels? 

Please tell me you're not in the "Christ never laughed" camp too...  God has a sense of humor.  We frequently laugh together during our prayer time.  I find it hard to believe that just because the Bible doesn't record Him laughing that Christ didn't have light-hearted, jovial discourse with His disciples and/or those He loved.

~~Becka

Terrence,

We had a similar experience on Sunday morning during worship.  We were singing a trio of worship songs and the last one was "Holy Ground".  When we sang "and I know that there are angels all around" ---- I could not keep the tears from coming.  Holiness was all around us.  Next, we sang Thomas' Song before communion. 

The Lord was truly among us this past Sunday.  And this is at a church of believers who, I am sorry to say,  sometimes just go through the motions.  Father, please forgive us for taking You for granted.  Help us to love You as You deserve to be loved.

As far as angels singing, no, I did not hear them.  But why would'nt they sing praises to God?  Even our Lord sings over us.  Zephaniah 3:17

Certainly God doesn't need to "test" anything, as He knows all.  And He knows the depths of our faith as well, but we are still tested - why?  So that WE will know the depths of our faith.  I find no fault in God wishing to show TERRANCE what the trumpets may sound like.  If he is still alive when they sound, he will know exactly what they are.  Perhaps it was God's way of telling Him to "listen up".

As far as telling "my people to make sure they have oil in their lamps", I did not see this as speaking directly to the Spirit-filled Church, but to those who are coming to Christ right now before the end of the age.  Are those who are not of the Bride RIGHT NOW but will be tomorrow still "His children" in God's eyes? 

Remember, all Christians were foreknown by God and predestined before the foundations of the world.  Then they were called by Him, as no one can come to Christ unless the Father draws them.  Now, some are to be justified by the blood of Christ and receive the oil of the Holy Spirit.  God knows who are "His children" right now, even if they won't be saved until tomorrow.  I took His word about "His children having oil" meaning to continue to preach to the lost so they KNOW they have oil in their lamps.

In other words, redeem the time we have left to bring in ALL of God's children before that Trumpet sounds.

~~Becka

And we must also remember that there are souls in heaven already.  Jesus took some up with him.  So the singing could be coming from various sources. 

One of the main reasons why I seem to dispute a lot of what people state on this site is that I want to make sure that we are covering all the bases and thinking about things from as many angles as possible.  The root of my criticism is out of my love for all of you and for the love of the truth. 

You can give me any side for just about any issue and I will show you the other side, whether I agree with it or not.  It's one of the few gifts I recognize being from God and that is the gift of discernment.  You will never be able to answers the questiong that unbelivers will ask you unless you first ask them to yourself. That and I just think way too much.

I love that I do not need the Lord to prove anything to me anymore in this life.  I can simply trust in his will without the need for understanding, but the more we understand about his word the better we can explain it to those who don't know it.  If we ourselves can't figure some things out, then we ought to be careful about what we share with them.

Terrence, i believe you as have also experienced this - we all did, at a women aglow  spirit-led singing session.  even though there were only a few of us  there was a heavenly chorus we all heard it, and were all crying and greatly moved and blessed.

it happens.

I heard a trumpet-like sound on saturday night around midnight, woke me up. So it could be a message

I disagree. I don't believe logic and faith mix. My husband is very logical. We can go round and round, and I can try to answer his questions with logical and reasonable answers, but he always comes up with reasons why it can't be so, why there isn't a God, why Christ can't be who He said. Who can come up with a reason that can't be rebutted by a logical question? Who can prove that Christ is God's son? It all boils down to I believe because I believe. Faith is believing without seeing.

We can give our testimony, we can share the Word with unbelievers, we can love them with Christ's love, we can live our lives in a way that makes them curious to have what we have, but I don't believe you can give logic to why you believe that makes an unbeliever believe it. We don't see until we are in Heaven, then our faith will be our eyes. We are supposed to have a child-like faith, and I don't know many children who can give a logical reason for why they do what they do. They just do.

Kerri

I think that the Word of God and its implications can be discerned logically, assuming you know the Word as well as He does. His many layers of meanings and multiple fulfillments of prophecies can be confusing to us humans. Not to mention things like John the Baptist being the fulfillment of Elijah coming back to declare the coming of Messiah. Trying to interpret everything logically when we don't know all the variables is likely to be frustrating and/or confusing.

I have hopes that after our perfection it will be much easier.

I guess I shoudl appologize first for responding at all, but how am I to just leave it at that when you asked me to prove what I have said?  I don't like to run from a disagreement, I like to figure them out. 

First off, God created everything, including the concept of logic. Science is an art of discovering what God has created.  Math is a language in which things have been created.  Logic is as much a part of God as anything else is.  There is logic to every single action the Lord has taken or will take.  He has a reason for doing everything he does. God is logical.

Does anyone deny that God is logical? 

Is he spritual, yes, is he physical, yes, is he emotional, yes, is he logical, yes.

Here are a few verses that show that blind faith is not a biblical concept.

Proverbs 14:5 - A simple man believes anything, but a prudent man gives thoughts to his steps.

1 Peter 3:15 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

Romans 10:17 - So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 8:32 - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Acts 17:11 - These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1 Thes 5:21 - Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

2 Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Peter 3:16-18 -  He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.  Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

Blind faith is not a biblical concept at all.  If you cannot give reasons for the hope that is within you, then you only have blind faith. We are children of light and not darkness to live blindly. God expects us to put things to the test. 

Logic alone cannot save a person, but it can lead them to the path as it did for me.  And now logic and reasoning alongside my faith keeps me in line.  So many Christians hide from the logic and science argument when it comes to our faith.  How ashamed we ought to be.  Logic and science give proof to God's existence.  To ignore these wonderful things of God only hinders us in our task of saving souls.

In your defense, I don't think you have blind faith.  The term has been distorted.  Some christians think that blind faith is a way to show God we trust him.  But most who trust the Lord, have actual reasons.  Things the Lord has done in their lives to prove himself to them.  This is not blind faith anymore.  To believe without seeing is one thing, but that is not the same as what most consider to be blind faith.

Nonbelievers use this against us and say that we will beleive anything because we only have blind faith.  They ask questions about God when we ignore them or don't have answers to them. 

Nobody who has has accepted the Lord into their hearts should use the term blind faith.  We have a working faith.  Our faith is based on the works of God, and our faith leads us to do the works of God.  Blindness in any shape or form is just not something of God. Knowledge, understanding, and reasoning, most certainly are.

And forgive me if anything has come across offensive.

I believe Terrance.  I thought I heard angel voices join us at Church Sunday, too,  in a Shout Out to the Lord. It's called 'Supernatural Experience'.  That defies logic.  There are many mysteries we don't undertand logically but that doesn't mean they can't be.  We won't know until we arrive on the other side.

Why wouldn't some barriers be moved if the time has arrived for the rapture?  Heaven will be as excited as we are. Why couldn't we be allowed to her angel voices singing with us? This will be the greatest historical event ever on earth.  Two worlds will meet. a door will open that suggests many possibilities we've never considered. How do we know now what that will be like?  Why wouldn't God be "atuning " us in many ways to transform?  That makes sense to me!

Terrance has had many angel encounters.  So does this mean none of them could have happened then because they didn't happen to you, too?  Oh ye, of little faith!

I'm troubled by the tone of this claim that believes he knows better and refuses to entertain the possibility that what Terrence has told could possibly have happened.  Where's the faith of a child in that?  We are told that we need to come in the faith of a child to make it into Heaven.  Maybe a little less finger pointing and a little more faith is needed.  Some will have abilities not every one has--it's just that simple.  We have individual relationships with the Lord.  Terrance is a Pastor.  Perhaps a little more respect is in order.

Praise the Lord in whom ALL things are possible!

Victory Chanter, you nailed it....faith of a child!  I would love to say that i had experiences with angels, but i haven't ...but that doesn't mean they don't happen.  Terrance's post is so encouraging and i believe that is what we need to go back to focusing on.  

My apologies if i said anything here to offend anyone, i just wanted to make a point with Bryan that logic doesn't always fit in the spiritual realm and with the things of the Lord.  So i will duct tape my fingers together after i hit send on this one. :p

Blessings to all~

Terrence....I believe 100%!!

ok, so I never said angels can't sing, only that I see no evidence to prove they can

I never said Terrance didn't have a supernatural experience, only that we ought not to accept it blindly

I did ask if others had a similar experience and since so many apparently did, it gives credence to Terrance and everyone who had an experience on Sunday.

I'd like to think this was Jesus, the saints in heaven, and all the angels singing with such joy that we just experienced our last Sunday service here on earth.

It does sadden me that so many people discredit the power of logic and reasoning when it comes to Christianity.  We are a triune being after all, made up of the spirt, body, and mind.  God teaches us to find the balance for all 3.  If we only feed our spirit and ignore our body how could we physically do anything for God.  We would die soooner too.  If we ignore exercising our minds we become forgetful and simple minded.  If we ignore our spirit we will never understand the will of God nor be able to do it.  We must take care of all 3 aspects of ourselves.

In regards to that it is better to believe without seeing, we must take that verse in context.  Thomas was the only apostle who had yet to see the Lord in his glorified body.  He had 10 others who did.  10 others who Thomas knew walked with the Lord while he was here.  By all that they had been through together, he ought to have believed without seeing.

All of us believe without seeing.  None of us has seen heaven but we believe it is there and that we will go to it someday.  This verse also implies that seeing is not always enough.  1/3 of the angels knew God existed and lived with him and still turned against him.  Even if God showed himself to people, it doesn't mean they would follow him.  Many saw Jesus and did not believe him.

And child like faith works like this. First off, it only works if you have loving parents.  Children start out crying for food every day.  Eventually they learn that they will be fed, and they live by faith.  Faith can only come from experiencing something or understaind something.  Faith to God only comes from hearing the word of God.

And just because I use logic as just one tool to test the things that people claim to be of God, doesn't in no way, mean I have to understand 100% of everything going on.  I cannot explain one supernatural experience.  I believe they happen, but as commanded by my Lord, I test them to see if they hold up.  In this case, it did.

How wonderful it would be if more Christians understood that there is no gap between logic and faith, or faith and science.  Logic is but a means to prove God is real, just like science.  God tells us to use the world around us as proof of his glory. 

Loved by God,

My heart goes out to you.  I can only image the pangs your heart must feel when that string is tugged everytime you try to lead you husband to the truth.  It is not easy for logical people..sometimes stubborn, logical people, like myself to get to faith by logic alone.  Logic can only lead them to the cliff, but in the end, they must jump to know that God is there to catch them.

You may want to try another approach but it could take some time and study on your part.  The logic that helped to lead me to the Lord was looking at the bible like any other piece of literature. 

If you asked your husband if he believes in other things, things not pertaining to the bible.  For instance, and this example may not be that good, but ask him if he think a man named Christopher Columbus lived on this earth.  What does he use to accept that?  How does he know he got on a boat and traveled to America?  All we have to go on is written text and archeological evidence. 

But why put faith in this book and not the bible?  What else does he believe and what is his basis for it? 

When you treat the bible as simply a book of literature it becomes clear rather quickly that this book is more credible and reliable than any book written 2000 years ago or even 500 years ago.

I recommend you check out a book called The Case for Christ.  It gives a logical approach to proving the validity of the bible.  It would be good for any of us to read.  The author was a man in the exact same position as your husband.  He had a wife who kept trying to get him to believe.  He was a reporter so he decided to put the bible to the test by interviewing many very smart and knowledgable people.  And it passed with flying colors.

And may God give you the paitence to never give up on your husband, and that the Lord provide you the right words and arguments to use to help show your husband the path.  And may your husband realize what a wonderful person he married to care and love for him so. 

Tony, ain't that the truth. My voices don't come over on the screen so good and sometimes the jokes just aren't funny without them. By which I mean voice inflections, not voices in my head, just to be clear.

Bryan, that seems like a very good book choice. As I mentioned earlier, I buy more than a carpenter in multipacks and keep them in the office just in case I meet a logically inclined skeptic. Almost always a guy, by the way. They sound like similar books.

Here's a link with some excerpts from Josh's book:

http://files.tyndale.com/thpdata/FirstChapters/978-1-4143-2627-6.pdf

Cherished Faith and Brian V.,

It sounds to me as if your differences are largely about how you understand what words mean.

Logic is not a bad thing, nor is it opposed to God any more than mathematics would be.  People can still make mathematical errors and logic can be flawed.  If something is logical, then it is internally consistent.  That is, a thing cannot be "a" and "non-a" in the same way at the same time.

There are plenty of examples of faulty logic which people use to arrive at wrong conclusions.  A fallacy in a premise will result in erroneous thinking.

What Cherished Faith appears to be saying is that human reasoning is flawed by a lack of complete information.  To say the supernatural is not logical because it's not natural is reasoning in a circle.  You would be starting with a conclusion built into the premise.

"Blind" faith usually refers to trust without evidence, which does not apply to what we believe as Christians.  We have the testimony of Scripture, eyewitness accounts, thousands of years of history, and innumerable experiences to back up what we stand upon.

If you put your trust in a snakeoil salesman who just wandered into town, claiming what's in the bottle will cure all your problems, that might be an example of blind faith.  The testimony of someone who relates an experience may or may not be enough to convince another person.  At least here we are in agreement that the Bible is the standard by which we measure our thoughts.

Sometimes I put on my scholar's cap and approach things as if I were giving a legal answer.  I try to put aside my personal theories and answer only to the degree of which I am certain.  But there are things which I believe because the person who said them rose from the dead, and I conclude that to be proof enough for me.

Just as reminder,

Mark 9:38-40

38  And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39  But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40  For he that is not against us is on our part.

Titus 3:9

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Do we believe that revelation from God still happening until now? Or it stop at when Paul and John?

What kind of false teaching/teacher should we avoid, teach about Jesus only prophet, the 2nd come of Jesus already here and someone how claim he is Jesus came for 2nd time or... someone  just come to encourage believer and warning them?

PS: I prefer be a kid that say "I only believe in You Jesus Christ and i surrender all of my life to You, no matter what You said to me and no matter people said about You", than be smart people debating about .......

Sorry if some feel i offense to you. 

GBU and Maranatha!

Qbey,

Performing miracles is not the same thing as receiving one.  Many people who are believers have made claims to visions or dreams that they have seen stating that they are from the Lord only to be proven wrong later.  They are not performing a mircle in these instances.  The verse you quoted doesn't apply to this situation.

I have never met nor seen in the news any person able to perform any miracles of any kind.  If just one person could heal another by faith then they ought to be visiting every single hospital in the world and we would have heard something by now.  Those gifts were giving to the apostles but not to us.  We can pray for God to perform a miracle if it is in his will, but we cannot perform one in his name.  $1000 to anyone who can prove that someone can. I think the late J. Vernon McGee also made this qoffer and never had to pay out a dime in the many years he was a preacher.

Also, nowhere in this topic has anyone debated any particular laws of God nor did we discuss false teachers.  

Hi Bryan V,

Thanks for your response, i don't pointed about that(miracle), but i hope you and some got/ understand about the "meaning" from all what i wrote. That's all i want to say about this discussion.

GBU and Maranatha!

Christian Guy,

Many of the gifts are still given out, but nobody has the gift to heal another in the name of Jesus Christ anymore.  If they did, then why are they being so quiet about it, shouldn't they be out healing the masses.  Faith healing only happens through prayer.  I'm talking about people who do the laying on hands thing.  That is not a gift any of us have anymore, I'm sorry.  I know how much we'd like it to be true, but it is not. 

We can only pray for our healing and for that of others.  You will find many times miraculous healings that cannot be explained.  But they are not healed due to a person healing someone else in the name of God.  That sort of heling would be instantaneous.  They would claim and it would happen just like Jesus did. 

The people who healed after Jesus gave them that gift were performing the same types of miracles that Jesus did.  When was the last time you heard of someone making a blind man see?  Google that....nothing.  Even God doesn't perform this miracle nowadays nor does he heal the crippled limbs.  I mean come on, the apostles were raising the dead too.  Do you honestly think this happens nowadays?  Come on...honestly, you can't just want something to be true and accept it to be truth with no evidence when evidence would be present if people healed like Jesus did.

There was a purpose to heal like that after Jesus ascended to heaven.  There had to be that sort of proof back then or the bible would never had been written.  Things didn't get written down whenever people wanted it to back then.  It was a big deal, and it had to be confirmed by witnesses.  Jesus still had to get himself known to that world then.  We don't need those type of miracles now that the bible is written for us.

Does anyone here agree with me on this, or am I the only one again? 

Hi Byran V, here i'm again,

John 14:12-14

12  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13  And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14  If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

PS: I understand why you being like this. To prevent believer believe wrongly.

GBU and Maranatha!