Typology of Pentecost?

This topic contains 12 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Savedat33 Savedat33 1 week, 6 days ago.

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  • #129336
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    I’ve been reading about how God repeats typology to show that He is God. And you can see how the Feasts point to Jesus and His fulfillment of them and we know that the Feasts were appointed times with God for Israel…

    Which brings me to Pentecost. Pentecost seems like something of a mystery to the Jewish people. We know that the Holy Spirit was poured out and the Church “born” on Pentecost … but what does that mean for the Jewish people and Israel, corporally whole?

    “So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.” Matt. 20:16

    Since Pentecost seems “mysterious” to the Jewish people and Jesus was the mystery of Godliness and the Holy Spirit poured out upon the Church on Pentecost but not Israel, and the Feasts are appointments for Israel and God works in typology… then perhaps Pentecost has double fulfillment but in reverse in light of Matt. 20:16?

    Perhaps, the second fulillment of Pentecost and one that would involve Israel and the Jewish people would be when God calls and seals the 144,000? We know that the 144,000 are referred to as the “elect”.

    There was 120 in the upper room. There are 12 tribes in Israel. 100 (the number) represents “election, Children of promise” (120 x 12 x 100 = 144,000)

    http://asis.com/users/stag/godcount.html

    So, what if… the Rapture is around Passover/ Firstfruits which coincides with the Rapture typology found in Esther and the Song of Solomon and also what Paul wrote:

    “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.” – 1 Cor. 15:23

    And the Pentecost fulfillment for Israel is the “sealing” of the 144,000?

    Incidentally, the massive bird migrations in Israel to include turtle doves (Song of Solomon 2) the carrion and birds of prey which will feast on the remains of the Gog/Magog coalition (Ezekiel 39:4, 17-20)

    “17 “Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: ‘Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls—all of them fattened animals from Bashan. 19 At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted and drink blood till you are drunk. 20 At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind,’ declares the Sovereign Lord.”

    All of these birds are in Israel from mid-March until mid-May.

    Im not saying this is how it is, but looking at world events, I can’t help but wonder. :rose:

    *fair use for informational and educational purposes only*

    #129340
    Tender Reed
    Tender Reed
    Participant

    Indeed God is sovereign. Who can alter or disrupt the plans of the Lord?! “Tom” now believes that the Song of Solomon speaks of betrothal rather than Rapture.

    Though His message is a simple one, God’s glories, plans and administrations are all indeed extremely complicated. They are measured in time and display wisdom and forethought. We are all indeed privileged to be living in such a time as this, as we witness what others could only dream of.

    Though we can revel in the increased understanding and knowledge of the prophetic, as it unfolds before us, I can only give the Lord the space and time to accomplish His purposes, rather than to hold my breath on a daily basis.

    Be still my heart as I continue to listen for the trump of God and His voice calling each of us by name!

    Springtime has always been associated with new life & new beginnings. As men’s hearts are planted in thoughts of love and the season is ushered in a gentle tenderness, we are mindful of the Lord’s abundance. Whimsical hearts sing as our spirits are resurrected from the darkness of the winter season.

    We are but one week away from Springtime. Let us indeed revel in our betrothal and our future!

    TR


    #129341
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    Since Pentecost seems “mysterious” to the Jewish people and Jesus was the mystery of Godliness and the Holy Spirit poured out upon the Church on Pentecost but not Israel,

    I would offer that the entire church was Jewish at that point, so it’s not a Jew or Gentile fulfillment, but a believer in Christ fulfillment. It wasn’t until after Pentecost that Gentiles were preached to.

    I think this is one of the biggest areas where maybe the past gets a little confused. The church as we know it today is mostly Gentiles. The “church” on Pentecost was entirely Jewish. While the same day may be used over and over, there is not more than one “fulfillment” of each feast in the person of Jesus Christ or BY the person of Jesus Christ. There is only one. On that day, the location of the law was changed to complete the changing of the covenants and the changing of the priesthood (Hebrews 7 & 8), which began at the cross. It wasn’t a Jew or Gentile thing at that point. They were all Jews.

    But it could certainly work out as you have said and would be very cool if it did. :rose:

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #129342
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    I completely agree and understand that Pentecost was fulfilled in the upper room, and that the Holy Spirit was poured out on the early church which consisted entirely of Jews. Ahahah the Lord has definitely checked that box.

    Where my train of thought departed from was: Israel (as a corporal body) missed that memo, just liked they did not “know the times” when their Messiah walked amongst them as a suffering servant.

    Also, what Peter said to crowds on the day of Pentecost. Yes, the scripture was fulfilled but the scripture he was quoting appears that it too will have two fulfillments given the words “before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.”

    And given that, corporally, the Jewish people still have a “?” concerning Pentecost, and if the Rapture occurs in the spring around Passover/First Fruits, then the Holy Spirit is “gone” with the Church and the Lord would (technically) have to “pour out” His Spirit (again) on Israel (second fulfillment of Joel 2) and we see in Revelation that the 144,000 elect have to be sealed (Holy Spirit), which brings it back to the 120x12x100 which Pentecost would be a very auspicious time to do so, given that is what He has done before, in times past.

    Hopefully, that clears my rambling up. 🙂

    Edit to add: Even the reading of Joel 2:27-31 sounds like it is post Gog/Magog.

    “27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

    (Compare to Ezekiel 39:7 – “7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.)

    28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

    29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

    30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

    31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.”

    (Emphasis added mine) :rose:

    #129343
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    And given that, corporally, the Jewish people still have a “?” concerning Pentecost, and if the Rapture occurs in the spring around Passover/First Fruits, then the Holy Spirit is “gone” with the Church and the Lord would (technically) have to “pour out” His Spirit (again) on Israel (second fulfillment of Joel 2) and we see in Revelation that the 144,000 elect have to be sealed (Holy Spirit), which brings it back to the 120x12x100 which Pentecost would be a very auspicious time to do so, given that is what He has done before, in times past.

    Yes, there will be multiple outpourings of the Spirit. There was one on Pentecost, in Acts 2. There will be one after Gog/Magog, in Ezekiel 39. There will be another at the end of the Week, per Zechariah 12. Regarding the salvation of national Israel, we know that occurs at the end of the Week when they corporately accept Jesus as Messiah.

    Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

    I figure, in Amos 8, the prophecy regards the Lord not “passing by” His people any longer. It’s the same word used in Exodus 12:12 & 12:23. It’s probably not a coincidence…

    Exodus 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.

    Exodus 12:23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

    The pouring out of the Spirit after Gog/Magog leads them back to God, but not to Jesus. Perhaps it will affect the “firstfruits”, like you suggested.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #129346

    2ndcoming
    Participant

    I have related the mystery of 153 to the three phases of resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:23-24 before. The number 153 consists of the number 100,50 and 3. In Greek word,they are hekaton,pentékonta and treis respectively.

    http://biblehub.com/text/john/21-11.htm

    1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    The three phases of resurrection and their correlation to the number 153 are listed as below.

    Phase 1: Christ the firstfruits. This event has been fulfilled during the firstfruit in 32 AD,third day after crucifixion. The number 3 may very well explain this event.

    Phase 2: afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. The church are “they that are Christ’s” because we belong to him. This is the rapture and the second phase of resurrection. The number 50 in 153 may very well put this event on Pentecost which is best known for it being 50 days from firstfruit.

    Phase 3: Then cometh the end. This is the final resurrection we find in Revelation 20:4. They are the tribulation saints whom God shall resurrect in order to enter the millennium kingdom. The number 100 may very well put their resurrection 100 days after Pentecost (50). 100 days after Pentecost is Elul 17,in time for the very first Feast of Tabernacles they shall celebrate and is demanded by God in Zechariah 14:16.

    #129347

    2ndcoming
    Participant

    One more comment I would like to add.

    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    Many Christians have argued that we are living under the kingdom of God which I have refuted many times. Paul has clearly stated that it is after “the end” comes,shall Christ deliver the kingdom to God. By then,it can correctly be named “Kingdom of God”,when Christ shall put down all rule and all authority and power.

    Has Jesus put down all rule and all authority and power yet? The answer is obviously “no”, because there are still many rebellions against him and his Father nowadays. The Kingdom of God can only come after the 7 years of tribulation,represented by Paul’s words “Then cometh the end,when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”.

    #129355
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    I kind of think I Cor 15:23-24 is only talking about two resurrections – Jesus’s on the Feast of Firstfruits, as the firstfruit of the dead, and then the resurrection at the end of the age (i.e. His Second Coming). The rapture was a mystery and hadn’t been revealed yet, although it would be later in the same chapter. The context of the preceding verses had been about the necessity of Christ having risen so we can rise, too. If He had not, we would not and our faith would be in vain. However, we can because He did. He was the firstfruits of the dead, and the rest will rise at His Coming. John 6 refers to this as “being raised at the last day”.

    It is only after Paul explains all that he goes on to tell about another “coming”, this one having been hidden as a mystery. That’s the rapture of the church which contains yet another resurrection. Since it comes after verses 23-24, I’d speculate those two verses are not actually about the rapture. Just my .02, and I could be wrong.

    It is entirely possible all three resurrections take place on the same day, only in different “stages” separated by 1980+ years, then by 7. Or maybe just the first (Jesus’s) and the last (at the end of the age). After all, Firstfruits was also the day the saints came out of their graves and walked around Jerusalem. Seems like a good day to me :unsure:

    Edit to add: It also makes what Missler said about Hosea 6:2 make a little more sense. They call Him back, and He comes on the third day. If you add in the 3.5 days the witnesses lay dead, you’re looking at 2523-24 days, not just 2520. The extra three would lead from Passover to Firstfruits…

    Hosea 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

    I dunno if that’s what those verses mean or not, but that’s what I recently heard Missler say of them. Interesting to ponder, if nothing else.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #129371

    2ndcoming
    Participant

    Heather, if you believe Paul teach two phases of resurrection, we mind as well quit RITAN and join those who believe in post-tribulation rapture. We also need to change our view on 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 to post-tribulation rapture.

    Paul gave detail of how resurrection like in the same chapter verses 50 to 54.

    1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    All these verses are referred to rapture when our corruptible bodies changed into incorruptible bodies,with the dead rise first. Paul does have the knowledge of pre-tribulation rapture and the three phases of resurrection,which he gave an accurate account in preceding verses 23 and 24. There is no mystery to Paul at all concerning the event rapture with his words “afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. “

    #129377
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    I might be mistaken but I don’t think Heather said Paul was teaching two phases of Resurrection. I believe she was referring to, as you have pointed out, the pre-Tribulation Rapture and then she was referring to the resurrection of the dead, often referred to as the Great White Throne judgment (Revelation 20: 11-15).

    “11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

    The three resurrections she was referring to was the Lord’s (to include the faithful departed in Jerusalem – Matt. 27:51-53)the Rapture (which is a resurrection of the dead but also we who are alive) and then the GWT judgment.

    “51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.” – Matt. 27:51-53

    The idea in mind was, perhaps all three resurrections would occur on the same day BUT at different points in time. :rose:

    #129385
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    Heather, if you believe Paul teach two phases of resurrection, we mind as well quit RITAN and join those who believe in post-tribulation rapture. We also need to change our view on 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 to post-tribulation rapture.

    Paul gave detail of how resurrection like in the same chapter verses 50 to 54.

    That’s not what I said… at all. I said Paul was likely teaching about the general resurrection which can only occur since Jesus rose. He was teaching the general doctrine of the resurrection, not the specific doctrine of the pre-trib rapture/resurrection in verses 23-24. The general doctrine of the resurrection is that if Christ had not risen, we can not rise, and our faith would be in vain. We would remain dead in our sins. But since He rose, we can, too. It has nothing to do with the pre-trib resurrection, only that a resurrection can happen at all and “here’s why”.

    Then, later in the chapter, he also introduced the pre-trib rapture which is neither the same resurrection as Jesus’s nor the general resurrection at the end of the age which, if you read verse 24, is what the second half of verse 23 is talking about – when the general resurrection occurs at the end of the age, the same time He sets up His Father’s Kingdom on earth.

    You can’t introduce specific info until you’ve fully explained the general info and the concept. Then, once you’ve done that… which is what Paul did in 23-24, THEN he could get specific about the resurrection that would apply to the church, which is what 51-55 do. Obviously, that comes between the two resurrections he mentioned as the bookends in 23-24.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #129406
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    The idea in mind was, perhaps all three resurrections would occur on the same day BUT at different points in time

    Yep. That’s what I was trying to say when I said this…

    It is entirely possible all three resurrections take place on the same day, only in different “stages” separated by 1980+ years, then by 7.

    32 AD to present = 1985 years, then another 7 to the end of the Week. :rose: I hadn’t even considered the GWT since that’s the judgment of the unrighteous. But yes, whatever time of year the Millennial Kingdom is established is the same time of year it will end, thus including the GWT in that same time frame, only 1000 years later.

    Thanks for this post, by the way. It’s quite helpful for what I’m working on. :mail:

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #129410
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    Thanks for this post, by the way. It’s quite helpful for what I’m working on.

    🙂 Awesome! Glad to have been of some help. Looking forward to your next piece! :yes:

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