Some Strong Reason's the Rapture Will Be In The Fall

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  • #130725
    Tom
    Tom
    Keymaster

    I wrote this article and posted it to the end of another thread a few days ago but feel it should be a thread that stands alone so here it is.

    Investigating a Mystery

    Like a good detective, it is important to ask and answer the 5 “W” questions when trying to gain insight to a mystery. Who, what,where when and why as well as how are the tools to finding context in the Bible when trying to understand God’s hidden but “findable” plans. He has left us many, many clues in His Word that show us His patterns and method of operation(MO) that He set in motion at the Genesis of creation.

    Since God never changes and is the same yesterday, today and forever, we can expect to find and understand his future plans and timing of them by studying those things he has done in the past and the who, where, when, what, why and how of them.

    AGRICULTURAL PATTERNS AND GOD’S TIMING OF EVENTS

    First of all God gave us the sun, moon, constellations to establish times and seasons (Gen 1:14) as well as a new moon and sabbath/feast days as indicators of His timing of special events. By studying the past major events in human history and especially his dealing with Israel, we can see a PATTERN of PRE-PICTURES and PARALLELS that over and over again tie those events to the solar and lunar seasons and to the agriculture timing of planting and harvesting. These patterns show overwhelmingly that major events on God’s calendar with very few exceptions, occur either in the Spring or Fall of the Northern Hemisphere.

    We know for example that from an agricultural viewpoint, any harvest of the springtime is small when compared to the fall harvest. This is a pre-picture of the spiritual First Fruits harvest of souls that was small at the first Christian era Pentecost and the very large spiritual harvest of that which will occur at the Rapture. The first in the Spring and the latter in the Fall.

    WHATS THE DEAL WITH THE EARLY AND LATTER RAINS

    Then we see the term “early” and “latter” rains. This also is tied to the agriculture concept of sowing and harvesting. We sow in the Spring and harvest in the Fall. The Word, in the person of Jesus Christ, was sowed during the “spring time” of the Christian era of Grace and therefore the “harvest” of that will take place in the Fall.

    More clues. The early rains are in the Spring time and the Latter rains in the Fall.

    Joel and the Day of the Lord

    Look at Joel chapter two (2). In this chapter the prophet Joel is telling Israel about the “day of the Lord” and when it will happen. This prophecy is from over 2500 years ago and we are seeing in the current events of our day indications that we are at the brink of this prophecy being fulfilled.

    What are the who, what where, when, why and how of this soon coming prophetic event that we will be privileged to be participants? Start with Joel chapter 2 verse 15. A trumpet is sounded to gather together the holy congregation.(see also 1Cor 15:51,52 & IThes 4:16,17) Who is part of this congregation? Elders, (mature believers) children (spiritually immature believers) Babies (the innocent that have not reached the age of accountability or are mentally impaired or any other person God deems innocent).

    Then there is the curious description at the end of verse 16 of two lovers going to meet each other and are defined as the Bridegroom and the Bride. The former coming from His chamber and the latter coming from her dressing room where she has been preparing herself for her wedding day as she waits for her Bridegroom to return for her. If this is not a clear picture of Jesus and His Bride, then nothing is.

    Then Joel goes on to paint a picture of Israel and all the dangers she will go through during this time of the “day of the Lord” which we see described in detail in Daniel and Revelation.

    Finally, Joel then tells when all this will start to happen in verses 23 & 24 by using the agriculture terms of early and latter rains. Notice the latter rain is in the FIRST month. We can know beyond a doubt that he is referring to the Fall month of Tishri (the Jewish first on their civil calendar)that starts with Rosh Ha Shannah because it is in that month the Summer harvest is reaped and is defined as a FULL harvest of wheat and an OVERFLOWING harvest of grapes and olives. These agricultural products are only harvested in abundance in the Fall.

    Another pattern that just occurred to me is that the “first” early rains harvest on Pentecost happened without Jesus being on Earth and the “Final” harvest during the latter rains will occur at the Rapture and Jesus will again NOT be on Earth. Interesting at the least and very telling of the timing of the rapture at best.

    What say ye? :heart:



    Gods plan and purpose for my life is never at risk. Phil 1:6

    #130776
    Boulder95
    Boulder95
    Spectator

    I like it! :mail:

    #130780

    Mike Mc
    Participant

    Another pattern that just occurred to me is that the “first” early rains harvest on Pentecost happened without Jesus being on Earth and the “Final” harvest during the latter rains will occur at the Rapture and Jesus will again NOT be on Earth. Interesting at the least and very telling of the timing of the rapture at best.

    The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior.

    1 Corinthians 12:13

    What is going on in John 20 when Jesus breathed on the disciples and told them to receive the Holy Spirit? Prior to this event, Jesus told them He could not send the Holy Spirit to them until after He returned to His Father. Then after this event He told them to wait in Jerusalem for the arrival of the Holy Spirit. So what happened in John 20, how do we explain this?

    A

    In John 20:17, on Resurrection morning, Jesus had Mary go and tell the disciples He was returning to the Father. That night, He appeared to them in the Upper Room and invested them with the Holy Spirit. (John 20:22) During the day He had been to Heaven and returned. I believe He was sprinkling His blood on the altar in Heaven in His final act of atonement as our High Priest (Hebr. 9:11-12) . During the next 40 days He taught them about God’s Kingdom. Then, as He was leaving Earth, He told them to wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came upon them in power. (Acts 1:8) This was a special manifestation of the Holy Spirit that resulted in the birth of the Church, but the Holy Spirit had dwelt within them since the night of the Resurrection.

    https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/when-did-the-disciples-receive-the-holy-spirit/

    I’m thinking they had the Holy Spirit already, because they all Believed That Jesus Was I am…

    I like it the way it Flows, but I’m a holding on for and earlier day..

    Pentecost 2017 :yes:

    BUT…! If we by chance get past Pentecost 2017…

    Do you hear the Crickets Chirping now…

    ~

    #130781
    Scipius
    Scipius
    Participant

    First things first, Tom if I get banished for posting on one of your threads, I understand. I know me on a thread is usually the end of a conversation.

    As for this September, it is not Rosh Hashanah, the head of the year. It is Yom Teruah, the day of shouting. When I checked Strongs concordance on the word Teruah, here is what I came up with.

    Teruaha shout of blast or war, alarm or joy.

    In Hebrew, one word can mean several things at one time. Ruach can mean both breath and spirit at the same time.

    So September, we have the day the blast of war is sounded (war is declared on Gods enemies), the day of alarm (Israel is alarmed), the day of joy (homecoming as some people are removed from the time and place of war and fear).

    Just a couple of thoughts I wanted to share. I don’t suggest building doctrine out of it. Just enjoying the depth of our Fathers words.

    Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor heavenly rulers, nor things that are present, nor things to come, nor powers, 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.



    #130782

    Mike Mc
    Participant

    Strong’s Concordance
    8643. teruah
    teruah: a shout or blast of war, alarm, or joy
    Original Word: תְּרוּעָה
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: teruah
    Phonetic Spelling: (ter-oo-aw’)
    Short Definition: shout
    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    from rua
    Definition
    a shout or blast of war, alarm, or joy
    NASB Translation
    alarm (5), battle cry (2), blowing (1), blowing trumpets (1), joy (1), joyful sound (1), resounding (1), shout (10), shout of alarm (1), shout of joy (1), shouted (1), shouting (4), shouts of joy (1), signal (1), trumpet blast (1), war cries (2), war cry (1).

    http://biblehub.com/hebrew/8643.htm

    ~

    #130784
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Participant

    Technically, it’s not Yom Teruah. It’s the “day of memorial of teruah”.

    Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

    That day is a memorial of another day and of another event. It is neither the day in question nor the event in question. It’s a remembrance of something that happened on another day, in another time, and in another place.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #130785
    TxThom
    TxThom
    Keymaster

    I’m not sure that’s quite it Heather. The same word is used when God told them to erect a pile of stones as a memorial to the sons of Israel to remember what God told them on that day. In other words, it isn’t about an anniversary of an event, but as a witness to the event itself.

    But I’m curious as to what day you think it is a reminder of, if a different day.

    I am convinced of this, that the One who began a good action among you will bring it to completion by the Day of the Messiah Jesus. Philippians 1:6



    #130786
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Participant

    The only occurrence of the word trump, trumpet, or trumpets prior to the giving of that feast date in Lev 23 is the giving of the law on Sinai via the voice of a trumpet.

    Exodus 19:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. 17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. 18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. 19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

    And that’s one of the ways they memorialized the Feast of Trumpets in the OT, by reading the law. Nehemiah 8 is one example.

    Nehemiah 8:1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the Lord had commanded to Israel. 2 And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month. 3 And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.

    I’m not saying memorials can’t remember something that happened on the same day… just that this particular one doesn’t seem to.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #130787
    churchgal
    churchgal
    Participant

    This is the verse that supports trumpets as being a memorial-

    Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Leviticus 23:24

    Nisan is the first month, according to the scripture, and even though the Jews practice two “new years”: God only commanded this one-

    Exodus 12:2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

    He then describes this is the month of passover.

    "and all creation sing with me now, lift up your voice and lay your burdens down...let all of creation sing with me now fill up the heavens let HIs glory resound, and every knee will bow, oh in every tongue praise the Father, praise the Son and the Spirit in One!!"

    #130788
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Participant

    Could be Tishri 1 was chosen because that’s the day Jesus began speaking creation into existence. Trumpets symbolize the voice of God, which is applicable in Creation and the giving of the law.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #130789
    Scipius
    Scipius
    Participant

    Now Heather, I didn’t mean to get your blood boiling. I did however do an exhaustive amount of research (like three minutes) to meticulously examine every possible angle. Either way just having some fun with it. If you insist it is a memorial, then I will accept it is the memorial of Teruah (joy) of when we left the third rock. As I recall, everything in scripture points to Yeshua, who is outside of time, that is non linear. Could it point forwards and backwards with both being equally correct? Methinks yes.

    However, I believe you and Tx Tom were getting ready to rumble, I certainly don’t want to disrupt that momentum. (Kidding, of course)

    On the bright side, I didn’t kill the thread, just started a fight, woot woot!

    I love you all. Smile and relax, we will be home soon, just never soon enough.

    Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor heavenly rulers, nor things that are present, nor things to come, nor powers, 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.



    #130790
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Participant

    Ha! Not at all. Many people don’t agree with my interpretation. I’d wager more don’t than do. :unsure: It is what it is. And you’re right… they all point to Jesus. Feast of Trumpets specifically with Hebrews 1:1-2, as both Creator and lawgiver.

    Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    So it doesn’t really matter which it’s memorializing. Both work.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #130791
    TxThom
    TxThom
    Keymaster

    I suspect most of our reactions when our Savior explains it all to us will be two fold: “I wasn’t nearly as close as I thought I was” and “That is way cooler than I ever dreamed.” His now-subtle interweavings will become far more obvious when He gives us new eyes and brains to understand with on That Day. I think on all the times He told the disciples about going to Jerusalem, being tortured and crucified, and rising on the third day. Over and over He told them. Did they get it? Not at all. We do a little better with the Holy Spirit indwelling us. But our minds and perceptions aren’t, I think, able to perceive the intricacies of how He has woven His Word and His World together over the centuries.

    I look forward to my upgrade.

    I am convinced of this, that the One who began a good action among you will bring it to completion by the Day of the Messiah Jesus. Philippians 1:6



    #130793
    Tom
    Tom
    Keymaster

    I love all the discussion about Feast’s of God and the many different viewpoints of what they are all about.

    The main thing most of the comments are missing is not seeing the absolute connection of each Feast to the yearly agricultural timing. The first 4 take place in the Spring. Passover, Unleavened Bread and First Fruits all withing an 8 day period. Then 50 days latter Pentecost just before the beginning of Summer. 4 months later the final three Feast take place in a 15 day period of time, all at the end of the Summer harvest and the start of Fall.

    Rosh Ha Shannah is the new year day of the Jewish civil celebration which takes place on the first day of the 7th month on the religious calendar which is also the first day of the first month of the civil calendar. This God ordained Feast day of the blowing of trumpets is to be a holy assembly of Gods called out people and is not a call to war. It has an application of both a memorial time of keeping the law of Moses as agreed to by Israel with it’s covenant with God at Mt Sinai which took place at the first Pentecost which occurred 50 days after Israel left Egypt and a future calling out of the Holy assembly of the Bride of Christ 4 months after Pentecost on the Feast day of the day of blowing of trumpets. This is the Jewish month of Tishri.

    The trumpets at this Feast day of the blowing of trumpets (Yom Teruah) are not ordinary trumpets or shofars but are the two silver trumpets which were blown only by the High priest to call the Holy assembly to gather and stand before the High Priest at a time of their gladness. (see Numbers 10:1,2,10. This is a perfect picture of what we read about in 1Cor 15:51,52 as well as IThes 4:16,17 and Joel 2:15,16. We will be gathered together before our High Priest and it will be at a time of our gladness. :yahoo:

    Just as the final agricultural harvest is “gathered” in at the end of Summer, so will be the final spiritual gathering in by the Lord of the Harvest. At least that is what God’s pattern of His method of operation indicates.



    Gods plan and purpose for my life is never at risk. Phil 1:6

    #130794
    Tender Reed
    Tender Reed
    Participant

    Enjoying this thread also as Tom has pointed out. Much humility and wisdom displayed by TxThom. I’m am more concerned about being outta here than in being right.

    After the enlightening of our minds, if I still don’t know why “that day” was chosen by God for the Rapture, I will most certainly ask.

    For when I understand the reasons for His choice, only then shall it make sense to me.

    In the end, I must instruct my heart to not look back and concern not to glory in what I am leaving behind, but rather look forward to what shall be mine. All the glories of Heaven aside, being in the eternal and glorious presence of my Father and creator God is what I shall forever glory in.

    TR


    #130796
    waiting on him
    waiting on him
    Participant

    Sorry But I have always thought that the Spirit Started on Pentecost and will be taken out on Pentecost. When that doesn’t happen THEN I will look to Trumpets. But Like many, TIRED of Waiting., Enough of this. Every year Every Feast Every holiday or something People Write all kinds of reasons the rapture will happen, and Still here.. Sometimes I think God likes to sit on his throne and enjoy watching us get beat down struggling. But nothing we can do but wait.

    #130797

    sonya b1974
    Participant

    I hope so!!!! Either in the fall, or earlier!

    #130813

    Terry
    Participant

    What are you going to do with Song of Solomon, then? Song of Solomon indicates a Spring Rapture. Not only I believe this, but many people do! If Song of Solomon indicates a Spring Rapture, then why would the Rapture occur in the Fall? That doesn’t make sense!
    Would God want it to seem to many people that Song of Solomon is indicating a Spring Rapture, but, no, not really, because the Rapture is really in the fall? :wacko: Of course not! God is not a God of deception.

    I thought my post: “Rapture In Early To Late Spring”, was quite clear, that the Bible seemed to be indicating that Jesus will return to this earth in the first jewish month of Nisan, or shortly thereafter, in the Spring, and that the Rapture should also occur in the Spring.

    #130843
    Tom
    Tom
    Keymaster

    What are you going to do with Song of Solomon, then? Song of Solomon indicates a Spring Rapture.

    Song of Solomon represents the betrothal and not the consummation of the relationship. Jesus offered his marriage covenant in the Spring by the shedding of His blood for the remission of our sin on Passover and then said he was going to prepare a home for us and would return for us at a later time.

    Remember….sow in the Spring reap in the Fall. Betrothed in the Spring and Married in the Fall. Those are the facts. :heart:



    Gods plan and purpose for my life is never at risk. Phil 1:6

    #130858

    Terry
    Participant

    Song of Solomon represents the betrothal and not the consummation of the relationship. Jesus offered his marriage covenant in the Spring by the shedding of His blood for the remission of our sin on Passover and then said he was going to prepare a home for us and would return for us at a later time.

    Thank you, Tom, for explaining that. The part about the betrothal makes perfect sense, because, according to ancient jewish tradition regarding the marriage ceremony, the jewish man goes away for up to two years to build a home for him and his bride-to-be, to live in. The way Jesus went away for two thousand years to prepare a place for us.
    But, the only thing that I don’t understand,:unsure: is, where Song of Solomon says: “Rise up, and come away”. Sounds like the Rapture. If it were a betrothal, why would it say: “Rise up and come away”? At a betrothal (a being promised to be married), the woman isn’t told to “Rise up, and come away”, with the man who has just promised to marry her. But, at the Rapture, we are told to “Come up hither” (Revelation 4:1), a rising up into the air, and of course we come away with Jesus, up into the air, into heaven.
    I would greatly appreciate it Tom, if you could clear this up for me so I am not confused. And this post right here is the last I will mention any part of this topic. :whistle:

    Remember….sow in the Spring reap in the Fall.

    This really makes sense, it does!

    #130863
    Ring Bearer
    Ring Bearer
    Participant

    Passover had dual fulfillment’s. Both in Ancient Egypt and then during Easter week. Could not the Truah remembrance also be pointing to a future event, which will eventually be a day of remembrance (like during the Millennium for example)?

    #130876
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Participant

    According to Ezekiel 45, there will be only 3 feasts celebrated in the Millennium – Passover, Unleavened Bread, and Tabernacles. Passover and Unleavened Bread in the first month, and Tabernacles in the seventh month.

    Lamb of God who taketh away sin
    Sinless Bread of Life
    Word became flesh and dwelt among us

    :good:

    Israel will celebrate all three. The Gentiles will celebrate only the last, as is evidenced by Zechariah 14.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
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