- May 7, 2017 at 4:03 pm #131383
YBICMay 7, 2017 at 4:42 pm #131385
I listened to just the first couple of minutes and, precisely as I expected based upon his comments from last week’s update, he had to take time to address the totally predictable responses that he got when he flipped his position on 2 Thes 2 as to whether it refers to a physical or spiritual departure. (JD apparently went from believing that it clearly and contextually made sense to be a physical departure to now believing it can only refer to a spiritual departure).
First off, I would totally agree with JD that mean-spirited, vile responses are completely uncalled for, inappropriate, and very un-Christlike. Or, in a word, sin. Very regrettable that folks who profess to love and follow Yeshua would somehow feel justified in attacking a brother on what is clearly a non-essential issue.
That said, hopefully someone who has JD’s ear can help him to understand that he has many people who regularly consume his weekly prophecy update and, as such, he has a huge responsibility for what he speaks and teaches. For him to change his position on a matter of this nature and offer so little insight or explanation as to why he did so, shows me that he does not fully understand the impact that he has as a respected prophecy teacher. Wisdom would have dictated for him to withhold any comments until he had reached a conclusion AND had the time to fully explain how he arrived at that conclusion.
I think all of us here on a site like this, or at least most of us, are genuinely seeking the truth and have enough humility to openly admit that none of us has the market cornered on that commodity. We all want to remain teachable and open to correction if we have believed something that the scripture does not support, or at least understand the scriptural basis for an opposing point of view/understanding.
The biggest problem I see here, and I sensed it almost immediately when JD spoke of the issue last week, is that he did not offer an explanation to help us understand the scriptural basis for the reversal of this position. Many, if not most reading this, have probably read and or listened to compelling teaching (i.e., a recent one by Andy Woods) identifying numerous arguments that support the idea that the verse in 2 Thes 2 refers to a physical departure. At the very least, any reasonable person, even if they took the position of it being a spiritual departure, would have to admit there are some arguments at least worthy of consideration.
Unfortunately, JD still did not offer any specific insight or scriptural explanation for his change of position. IMHO, he needs to do that, and sooner would be far better than later. It is one thing if you are a guy in your basement doing Bible study and your understanding changes on something like this. No need to alert the media. However, it is different when you are a high-profile prophecy teacher.
Still, at the end of the day, JD is a human being, just like the rest of us, flawed and subject to error. That’s why we are each ultimately accountable for our own beliefs before the Lord, not what any YouTube preacher or teacher might say. Hopefully JD learned a rough lesson and will exercise greater wisdom the next time a similar situation arises. In the meantime, I am still very interested to hear exactly what it was that caused him to change his position. I hope he chooses to share that sometime soon.
John 14:1-3 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."May 9, 2017 at 9:18 am #131453
How can you be so sure? Can you show with 100% certainty that you know God’s thoughts and plans for this point in our future?
Even before I ever read this verse or even the debate around it, it was plain to me that we follow in Jesus’ footsteps in our ascension. Jesus died for our sins. He shed His body of sin for one of cleanliness. This was the only way to enter Heaven, purified.
While His death purifies our spirit for His return and our ascension to Heaven with him, it doesn’t cleanse our bodies, because while in this flesh, we are always tempted with sin.
“…51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed
52 in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.…”
My opinion.May 9, 2017 at 7:37 pm #131481
Hello J Felts:
Can only assume your response is directed at me, since I am the only other person on the thread. Have to admit, your reply is a bit perplexing to me. (I guess there is a chance you response and questions were directed at JD, but I cannot tell for sure from your post.) The rest of this post is based on the assumption (always dangerous) that you were addressing me. If you were not, you can stop here.
No where in my post did I say I was 100% sure that 2 Thes 2:3 refers to a physical departure. I do believe it does, and I do believe there are compelling arguments that support that view, not the least of which is context, context, context. However, that said, I could be wrong. It seems to me you may have read something between the lines that I never wrote nor intended to imply (if in fact your response was directed at me).
Here is a quick summary of my post:
1) I was pretty sure that JD was going to have circle back and address this topic again based on the way he handled it the week before. Turned out on that count I was correct.
2) I wholeheartedly agree with JD that some of the responses he received, based on how he characterized them, were completely inappropriate. Followers of Yeshua are never justified in attacking a brother in a vile, mean-spirited way, especially when debating over a non-essential doctrine.
3) My main point was that JD needs to realize that many people follow his teaching and that when he changes his position on a topic like this, he does folks a disservice when he fails to fully explain, from a scriptural perspective, exactly what it was that caused him to change his mind. I still don’t know the answer to that question and would very much appreciate it if he would take the time to explain.
John 14:1-3 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."May 9, 2017 at 8:08 pm #131483
I did appreciate his asking to sit down with two doctrinal experts, one from either side of this argument, to try to figure this matter out. If I were him, I think I might also stay a bit quiet on the details until I had sorted them out better in my own mind, especially considering the adversarial response he had. And I mean adversarial. The accuser of the brethren aka the adversary was apparently working extra hard.
To me the church has been departing from the faith in part since the very early days. It’s why we have so much of the NT which were letters telling the very early church to stop listening to false teachers and stick the the true gospel message they had been given. It got worse after the eye witnesses to Him passed. If the “departure” is based on a doctrinal departure, you have to ask which one and at what point? A physical departure would be a nice clean event they could point to and say – “Hey! That hasn’t happened yet, so we can relax about it.” Which is, after all, what the scriptural conversation was about in context.
I think JD was tired, heard someone express themselves well, and thought “That sounds right” and repeated it. He’ll want to be sure of what he says before he addresses the issue again. That having been said, after years on Ritan, there isn’t a whole lot of fresh prophetic insight to be found there. But I listen now and then just to be sure. Amir Tsarfati had one this past week – Nehemiah 2. An Iranian official, a Jordanian and an Arab wanted Jerusalem for themselves and were told they had no part, no heritage, no inheritance there. Turns out they still want it. And it still isn’t theirs.
Sometimes you still learn something new.
I am convinced of this, that the One who began a good action among you will bring it to completion by the Day of the Messiah Jesus. Philippians 1:6
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.