Is Ezekiel 38-39's "spoil" really about oil and natural gas?

MAIN DISCUSSION FORUM Forums Speculation on Timing of Rapture or Tribulation Is Ezekiel 38-39's "spoil" really about oil and natural gas?

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  • #112769
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    :Hi:

    So I’m just going to toss this out there and you all can make of it what you will. :rose:

    It’s a pretty common thought that the “spoil” which Gog and his coalition of forces will take relates to the oil and natural gas Israel is quite rich in. While I do give that idea merit, I don’t think that’s actually what’s in view with these attacks. I say “attacks” because it isn’t just one invasion in view. Rather, there are multiple. Please allow me to explain…

    I’ve been studying different versions of Ezekiel 38-39 to try to gain extra context for the setting of this conflict. While this may put some of you off, I’ll at least share what I’ve been learning. And what I’ve been learning has my opinion more solidified than ever that the weapons listed are not figurative. Rather, they are quite literal. Here is how I get there.

    Take it or leave it, and I’m not going to go into much detail about it, but if you’re familiar with the story of the Kandahar giant, you’ll be familiar with where I’m going with this. Allegedly, it was a 12-footer US forces brought down outside a cave in Afghanistan in 2005. Not only was it said the giant was extremely hard to kill, but its weapons were identical to those listed in Ezekiel 38-39. They were ancient, as some suspect the giant himself may also have been.

    If we apply that type of scenario to Gog and Gog’s army, we get something exactly like we read in the first few verses of Ezekiel 38 (and we can apply that, at least in principle, because the Septuagint plainly states the “mighty men” referenced in Ezekiel 39 are giants).

    What is extremely important to note is the order of information we are given. Ezekiel 38:1-3 starts with the identification of Gog and the prophecy against him.

    Ezekiel 38:1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

    Then, verse 4 states the following:

    Ezekiel 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

    I think it’s really important to note the contents of verse 4 do not appear to relate to any other nations yet prophesied to be involved in this invasion, rather only to Gog of Magog. The prophecy is against him and his land, not against any other nation involved. Yes, the people involved will all be destroyed, but only the land area that is Magog is prophesied to be destroyed. That’s specifically because of Gog.

    So if we look only at these verses, we can conclude the army which will be brought forth at God’s specified time and for His specified purpose will be Gog’s –

    I will bring thee forth and all thine army:

    horse and horsemen
    all of them clothed with all sorts of armor
    even a great company with bucklers and shields
    all of them handling swords

    Sounds like an ancient army, eh? Kind of like Gog and his forces who actually were ancient peoples… more specifically, ancient warriors.

    And it’s not until AFTER that army is described that the following verses are added in:

    Ezekiel 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: 6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

    All of those are present, but they are ancillary to the main army, which is Gog’s. This is supported in two different places:

    Ezekiel 38:7 Be prepared. Yes, prepare yourself—you and all of your many battalions that have gathered together around you to protect you.

    Ezekiel 38:9 You’ll arise suddenly, like a tornado, coming like a windstorm[o] to cover the land, you and all your soldiers with you, along with many nations.

    The force led will be Gog’s army, and the others will be joining the fight. Why?

    In large part, it pertains to the verses people have been quoting a lot lately…

    Zechariah 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. 3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

    I’ve pretty much always been of the opinion these verses are about the destruction of the nations, like Joel 3 discusses in detail, at the Second Coming. Armageddon is about the fight for God’s holy mountain, Zion. We can know that because it’s where He returns from the clouds to in order to destroy the armies of Armageddon, which will be waiting for Him.

    Joel 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord. 12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. 13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. 14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. 16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

    Mount Zion, where the Lord roars out of, is in the Old City.

    Here’s a link to more info about Zion – https://gotquestions.org/Zion.html

    So then we can fast-forward to the second Gog/Magog invasion; the one which occurs after the Millennial Reign and just before the Great White Throne.

    Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    Again… all about Jerusalem.

    It is my opinion all the dispensational wars and/or significant events which pertain to Israel’s past and future are all about Jerusalem. The diaspora which was caused by Israel’s transgression against God (rejection of Jesus), as mentioned in both Daniel 9 and Ezekiel 39, occurred as a result of the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The abomination of desolation will occur in Jerusalem, causing the remnant to flee and be protected by God until the Second Coming. I already mentioned Armageddon and where that will take place. I also mentioned the second invasion of Gog.

    It’s my opinion the spoil which is being referred to in Ezekiel 38-39, while it may or may not include oil and natural gas, is more than likely all about Jerusalem… as everything else seems to be.

    We have to keep in mind Gog is supernatural. He was mentioned in the Septuagint version of Amos 7. He is mentioned in Ezekiel 38-39. He is also mentioned 1007 years later in Revelation 20. Oil and natural gas are not supernatural. Jerusalem, however, very much is.

    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    And the UN Resolution which just passed today is a step ever closer to bringing that battle to fruition via the Battle of Gog and Magog.

    Just my .02.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #112773
    Goodcheer
    Goodcheer
    Participant

    I would just add to the discussion that I find it interesting that they are raising cattle (cows) on the Golan heights these days, and cattle is mentioned in Ezekiel 38. Of course, cattle could refer to any livestock, or any animal food source I suppose, but the fact that there are cattle and “cowboys” on the Golan heights is intriguing.

    Also, I remember reading about modern weapons that are made of a material that can be burned, which makes me think of Ezekiel 39, where the burning of weapons for fuel is mentioned.

    I’ve read that Russia has the largest horse cavalry, and can get a lot more from Mongolia. The Hebrew word “paresh” is translated “horsemen”, but some have noted that “paresh” sounds like paratroopers. That may be a stretch.

    Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.


    #112774
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    Part of me thinks Mount Hermon, which is on the Golan, factors into this. That Hermon may be where they appear and that they’ll come down the Jordan River toward Jerusalem, which is why their resting place will be east of the Dead Sea – a stone’s throw away from the Holy City.

    Either that or Nebo. Dunno. :unsure:

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #112781
    Tender Reed
    Tender Reed
    Participant

    Indeed Israel, the Jewish people and Jerusalem in particular are the spoils, IMHO.

    TR


    #112795
    MyWhiteStone
    MyWhiteStone
    Participant

    Take it or leave it, and I’m not going to go into much detail about it, but if you’re familiar with the story of the Kandahar giant, you’ll be familiar with where I’m going with this.

    Part of me thinks Mount Hermon, which is on the Golan, factors into this. That Hermon may be where they appear and that they’ll come down the Jordan River toward Jerusalem, which is why their resting place will be east of the Dead Sea – a stone’s throw away from the Holy City.

    I would just add to the discussion that I find it interesting that they are raising cattle (cows) on the Golan heights these days, and cattle is mentioned in Ezekiel 38. Of course, cattle could refer to any livestock, or any animal food source I suppose, but the fact that there are cattle and “cowboys” on the Golan heights is intriguing.

    Wow! I wonder what giants usually eat. Fe fi fo fum!

    Fascinating, Heather. Thanks!

    I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end He will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; I myself will see Him with my own eyes -- I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me! Job19:25-27



    #112796
    Regina
    Regina
    Participant

    Heather, the Kandahar giant story has me wondering about Afghanistan. There is a place named Gog there, in the Bamiyan region (Bamiyan is where the Taliban destroyed giant Buddha’s). if there really are giants living in the mountains and caves of Afghanistan, their numbers are not known. Persia is mentioned in Ezekiel. Afghanistan is at the eastern border of Iran. In Wikipedia, it says artifacts have been found there dating to 3000bce; Persia ruled the Afghanistan area for awhile. Could it be that Afghanistan is in the group with Persia in Ezekial?

    Afghanistan
    Fair Use for Educational and Discussion Purposes

    Ani L'Dodi V'Dodi Li
    I am my beloved's, my beloved is mine

    #112810
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    Some maps show the “-stan” nations as being part of ancient Magog.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #112963
    No Other Rock
    No Other Rock
    Moderator

    Per your request to bring the Gog discussion here from the other thread, WND has a huge article, “The truth about Gog and Magog” by Joel Richardson. I know some poo-poo Richardson, but at least he shows many maps that may be of interest, along with lively readers comments below and their views to add to the discussion.

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/the-truth-about-gog-and-magog/

    I Am the Lord! Besides Me there is no Savior. For there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved!...For in him we live, and move, and have our being!

    #112966
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    Thanks, Rocki! The first map on that link is the same one I included in my study of Ezekiel 38-39. It really helps to put into perspective why the Great Wall of China was originally called the Ramparts of Gog and Magog. Parts of that wall were around even back in Ezekiel’s time.

    The question from the previous thread which I wanted to discuss over here was:

    Ok, Now Im confused. If it isn’t Putin and they are on horses and it will be soon, then is it spirits and demons ?

    Gog and his army, as well as the rest that join in, will all die on the mountains of Israel. It is on those mountains the birds will be called to feast. Whom are they given the command to feast on?

    From the Septuagint of Ezekiel 39:

    Spirits and demons, no. Those have no physical form. Hybrid beings of some sort? Yes.

    It goes back to what I said about Gog being named in Amos 7, and in Ezekiel 38, and in Revelation 20. He was around way back then. He will be around again. Then, he will be around again in about 1007 years. Apparently, he is bringing his warriors with him when he comes back.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #112968
    waiting on him
    waiting on him
    Participant

    Ok,, Time frame.. 5 years? 1 Year, before January 2017? before election?

    #112972
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    This is a pretty good article, the author did a good job putting together news articles about archeological finds in the “-stan” regions. Not an easy task, I suspect.

    Bronze Age Giants: Kurgan warriors of Russia & Asia 7 feet tall

    #112974
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    This stuff totally fascinates me. I can’t get enough!

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #112976
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    Ok,, Time frame.. 5 years? 1 Year, before January 2017? before election?

    Did you happen to read any of my study? That’s not just a simple answer I want to give with no explanation. Part One was verse by verse through Ezekiel 38 & 39. Part Four was the Jubilee year.

    All the explanation is in those, but they’re kind of long… If you want to know how I arrived at my conclusions, which I would suggest so you have explanation, you can find my work at academia.edu and search “Heather R”.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #112997

    Mike Mc
    Participant

    Heather R

    We have to keep in mind Gog is supernatural. He was mentioned in the Septuagint version of Amos 7. He is mentioned in Ezekiel 38-39. He is also mentioned 1007 years later in Revelation 20

    Like your lesson… This always gets my attention… Once the restraining power is removed and us in the Rapture this world will never be the same ever again.. I think it will be just like the days of Noah, just throwing that out their… Satan has a Plan according to God’s Word, and he will have all the Supernatural power he needs to fool those left on earth. His very next attempt to bring about his kingdom will , well it will fail again… Genesis 6:4; the name is also used in reference to “giants” who inhabited Canaan at the time of the Israelite conquest of Canaan according to Numbers 13:33. We seemed like grasshoppers to them Giants….. “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward.” It seems through DNA, that the demons repeated their sin sometime after the flood as well. We know this to be true because King David fought Goliath a Giant and so were his 4 Brothers…
    2 Thessalonians 2:9 … the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

    Revelation 16:13-15 Talks about the Supernatural Beings… Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs…

    Everyone claiming to be a “Christian” should be familiar with Matthew 24:37, “But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” We know this is to and about Israel and not the Church, but,If we take this statement of our Lord at face value and I sure do, then the very same things that occurred before the flood will be repeated just before the Lord Jesus comes back once again, with us this time to put and end to this evil for 1000 years…

    I think Heather is Spot on, and folks have no clue what they are in for during the Tribulation, Thank God For Our Salvation and our Redemption… Just before Revelation 16 is Revelation 11:3-13 where the two witnesses are warning and Preaching … Can you see this Picture, when the Angels show up Preaching and warning not to take the mark of the beast and they will be Visible…

    Paul Knew what he was talking about in 1 Corinthians 10:19-21…
    20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

    21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.

    “they sacrifice to devils, and not to God” { Demons }… Revelation 9 talks about men worshiping Devils { Demons } 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils…

    Jesus, Call on the Name of Jesus… Everyone here knows this is a Spiritual war… As Heather said, This stuff totally fascinates me. I can’t get enough!

    We may not have all the answers right now, but we will one day right after the Rapture…. Keep looking up… Russia is moving a Fleet of ships off the coast of Syria…Oct 09, 2016 · ‘Israel spies on Russian fleet off Syrian coast’ …

    #112999

    Mike Mc
    Participant

    I know this is a little off topic but.. :rose:

    The battle group includes the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov and seven accompanying ships.

    A senior NATO diplomat said the Northern Fleet’s shift from Murmansk to the Mediterranean has only one purpose.

    “They are deploying all of the Northern Fleet and much of the Baltic Fleet in the largest surface deployment since the end of the Cold War,” the diplomat said.
    A Norwegian newspaper quoted the head of the Norwegian military intelligence service saying the Russian naval forces sent from the north “will probably play a role in the deciding battle for Aleppo.”

    Diplomats suggested Russia is seeking to move swiftly and will then begin removing its troops after Aleppo is taken.

    Russian commentators noted how the moves give Russia an advantage

    For fair use and educational purposes..

    Russian Fleets Converge On Syria In Preparation For Final Battle For Aleppo

    #113007
    Regina
    Regina
    Participant

    Heather, Gog is supernatural since he shows up at various times, the battle after the thousand year reign of Jesus + 7 years of trib time would be around 1007 years apart if the timing of Gog Magog battle at beginning of trib is correct. So I’m wondering about how this can be since Gog gets buried after defeat. Could he be possessing a man, then when the man dies be available again for a latter battle? These wicked principalities in high places, Ephesians 6, can they possess people? Is Gog one of the ones spoken of in Ephesians 6, not a giant, not a mere man.

    Ani L'Dodi V'Dodi Li
    I am my beloved's, my beloved is mine

    #113020
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    I don’t know, Regina. :unsure: I wish I had an answer for you about that, but I just don’t know.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #113176
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Moderator

    I was going to post this on Amir’s Q&A thread, but it really goes more with this post. I was really happy Amir talked about much of what he talked about. One of the things of particular interest to me was about Armageddon. Amir mentioned the battle doesn’t actually occur in the valley of Meghiddo. Rather, that is only a gathering place. Once they gather, they come against Jerusalem. It’s always about Jerusalem.

    This is what I was talking about in this thread. The Lord roars out of Zion, after having had the trumpet sound alarm in His holy mountain. That’s the Feast of Trumpets in Joel 2:1, and the Day of Atonement in view in Joel 2:13-15+. What’s even more interesting is the valley of Jehoshaphat is the valley just beneath the Mount of Olives, where His feet are prophesied in Zechariah 14 to touch down. It is there the sheep and goats judgment will occur, as referred to in Matthew 25. From there, He will be free to march right down the mount and into the temple court, just like He did on Palm Sunday.

    I’ve been going over and over this in my head lately about whether that indeed does occur on YK or whether it will occur on Tabernacles. The anointing of the most holy has always been done on Tabernacles, in both the first and second temple – II Chronicles 7 & Shemini Atzeret (more than likely) when Jesus was taken to the temple – and it’s written of in Ezekiel 43 which could possibly allude to Tabernacles, as well. (Or that just may be the ordination period of the priests – Lev 8 & Ex 29 rather than a feast day.) Amir said Jesus will return on the Day of Atonement, and that can be seen from Zechariah 12 and their mourning for Him who they pierced. That’s been my observation, too. Guess I’ll just have to wait this one out. :unsure:

    Oh, and one other thing… Putin just said he would work toward the Palestinians getting their own state with East Jerusalem as their capital. If that’s not Ezekiel 38-39, I dunno what is. :whistle: ‘Cuz we also have to keep in mind Putin told the USA if the wanted a war, they’d get it. And it would be “everywhere” and it would be “asymmetrical”. I have to think he was talking about Israel and Jerusalem. And the second UN Resolution to remove Jewish affiliation with the temple mount goes to the table over the next couple days.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #113181

    Mike Mc
    Participant

    Amir mentioned the battle doesn’t actually occur in the valley of Meghiddo. Rather, that is only a gathering place. Once they gather, they come against Jerusalem. It’s always about Jerusalem.

    The Hook, and Yes I agree. I would look for a First strike from Israel against Iran and others. Tensions are running high in Syria right now with the Aleppo war with Russia. All it would take is just one mistake one wrong missile launch..

    Oh, and one other thing… Putin just said he would work toward the Palestinians getting their own state with East Jerusalem as their capital. If that’s not Ezekiel 38-39, I dunno what is.

    The Bereans are watching very close now. It’s really hard not to see this unfolding. Everyone is focused on the Elections and the Rapture “Jesus”, could be At The Door…. I need to watch Amir’s Q&A…

    #113242
    TakeMeHome
    TakeMeHome
    Participant

    Heather this has been a great study!! Forgive me if these tidbits have been mentioned:

    I’m now in total agreement with Gog being supernatural. Jack Kelly had a discussion with some good points. In Amos Gog is called king of the locusts (Septuagint) and Proverbs 30 tells us locusts do not have a king. (Rev. 9) gives us another hint of the supernatural qualities when the locusts are released With Abbadon/Appolyon being their King when the fallen angels are released from the Abyss. Again locusts don’t have a King.

    Ezekiel 38 calls Gog prince of Rosh,Meshech an Tubal. In Daniel 10 the angel mentions he was withstood by the prince of of Persia, the chief prince Michael came to help him.

    Also, an interesting note is the UN has a base sitting on top of Mt Hermon.

    It was when Jesus and the diciples were in Ceacsaria that he told Peter how the gates of hell will not prevail. So with this and some outside reading I too suspect Mt Hermon could be a gate or landing pad in the trib for fallen angels and demons.

    Again, please forgive if this has been posted.

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