Don't Take Someone Else's Word for It

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Terry 1 week, 1 day ago.

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  • #129899
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Participant

    Hi all :Hi:

    I’m a bit concerned with a post that was put up yesterday. I’m not calling attention to anyone specifically, but there was a point I wanted to address. It was about whether if April passes without the rapture occurring we will start to assign blame to people for being wrong. My name was connected to that.

    Here’s the thing…

    I just want to make it clear that the bulk of my research has been about the Second Coming. Revelation 19:10b tells us the testimony of Jesus Christ is the spirit of prophecy. Thus, Bible prophecy and the “end times” relates to everything up to and including the Second Coming and the establishment of His Kingdom on earth.

    THAT is the time I’ve been searching Scripture regarding.

    NOT the timing of the rapture.

    If that was not clear before, or if it was somehow missed, then hopefully it is clear now. It’s what every single bit of my recent writing has been about, with the exception of this last writing which was solely about defending the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture. It had absolutely nothing at all to do with any times of year or anything like that.

    I always try to end my work telling people they need to search the Scriptures for themselves. No one should ever just take anyone else’s word for anything. That leads to the post that I saw yesterday about being ready to assign blame should April pass with us still here.

    Sorry, but all statements like that accomplish is making people who post stuff not want to post it anymore. I’m a special case though… I’ll keep posting anyway. :mail:

    But I would encourage people to get active in the research game so they can add to the discussion, not sit back and wait for people to be wrong so you can blame them. That doesn’t help anyone or anything. We are all in the same boat, sharing the same love of and longing for His appearing. :heart:

    More than anything, I just wanted to be clear that while others have talked about an April rapture, I haven’t been one of them. I never said that would be the case, nor will I say that now. Could it be? Sure. There are even a few days left in March that sound really good. :whistle:

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #129907
    gobyebye
    gobyebye
    Participant

    I respect this post.

    I expected the Rapture to be completed by the end of 2015. I can tell you trying to assign blame over a failed date is a pointless endeavor. It will not improve one’s relationship with God at all.

    #129909
    No Other Rock
    No Other Rock
    Moderator

    Great post Heather. that clarifies your searches and stand in it!

    I Am the Lord! Besides Me there is no Savior. For there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved!...For in him we live, and move, and have our being!

    #129912
    Savedat33
    Savedat33
    Participant

    “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10:17

    “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Tim. 2:15

    “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;” – Eph. 4:13,14

    Our faith is built by studying God’s Word for ourselves. When we study God’s Word, we learn about God. We learn He has His ways and we learn about His ways. He instructs us and we develop an intimate understanding of Him.

    Paul said “a workman that needth not be ashamed” which would imply that it’s possible a workman can be “ashamed” for not studying. That clears up for me, where the question of any “blame” should go. :rose:

    #130020

    homeward bound
    Participant

    I’m going to point fingers if the tribulation starts before the rapture. mostly at me. :negative:
    But thanks Heather you are correct.

    #130022
    MyWhiteStone
    MyWhiteStone
    Participant

    Start from 6 Sivan 5777 (2 June, near Shavuot / Pentecost this year — Pentecost is always a Sunday) and count 2,520 days to 15 Nisan 5784 (26 March in 2024, which begins Unleavened Bread) and you may have a reasonable candidate time frame for the 70th week Tribulation. Such was suggested by a thorough Bible researcher I deeply respect and consider trustworthy, and also personally have traced the reasons for her proposing the 15 Nisan 5784 end date.

    Maybe the covenant with many, then, could begin on this coming 2 June. Note that we would have been extracted out before then. The AC whose covenant it would be must have been revealed by the commencement. And he might like some slack time to perform a few lying wonders or something first. So if the 6 Sivan 5777 to 15 Nisan 5784 interval actually contains the Tribulation, we should be out of here within the next two months max. Right?

    Personally, I’m thrilled to my core to hold this candidate time frame high; to me it’s not only possible, it’s quite likely! :yahoo: :good: :yes:

    I have been hopeful before, yet if it is not what God is planning, I’ll again have get back up on that horse and ride it some more — just like it’s been for years. No harm, no foul, no blame if we don’t actually escape somewhat before June 2.

    I kinda’ favor the Rapture tonight. It would give that AC a full two months plus to win friends and influence people. :mail: :yes:

    I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end He will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; I myself will see Him with my own eyes -- I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me! Job19:25-27



    #130574

    Mike Mc
    Participant

    Pentecost could fulfill Matthew 24:36 as no one knows the date of Pentecost until the Omer countdown is marked each year (Leviticus 23:15-17)… it is the festival without a date. Additionally, After the 7 weeks of the spring harvest, the next day, the 50th day, is Pentecost. This day is also the eighth day of the seventh week. This 8th and 50th day combination pictures the first resurrection when the saints will be raised from the dead and made immortal (1Corinthians 15:20 – 23, John 3:3 – 12, Revelation 20:4 – 6).

    Also consider the following, posted from the comments section of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QekYFH-pQMg (this video also has excellent arguments for a Spring Rapture). In all my studying and watching for the Messiah I believe a Pentecost Rapture is a very high probability for the rapture of the bride!
    1) It’s within the 49th year from Israel’s decree to restore and build on June 28, 1967 landing between June 15/28 2016 until June 15/28
    2017 depending on whether one is to take into consideration leap years.

    2) Lands within a jubilee year which is about to start on YHWH’s Creation calendar. Not just any jubilee but likely the 120th since creation.
    3) It’s a feast day that may not have been completely fulfilled. Unlike Passover, unleavened bread and first fruits which have already been
    fulfilled by Yeshua. All the remaining unfulfilled fall feasts pertain to the millennial kingdom after the seven year tribulation period.

    4)It lands in the spring just like the barley harvest. Barley represents the bride of Christ.

    5)The rapture is the reciprocal of Pentecost in that the bride of Christ will ascend onto Yeshua while it was the Holy Spirit that descended onto the 120 in the upper room. Not to mention the 120 representing the 120th jubilee 120×50= 6,000 years.

    6)Enoch who represented the bride of Christ because he was the only one who was raptured before the flood in Noah’s day was also born and raptured on the day of Pentecost! He was raptured on his 365th birthday.His 365th birthday year was a clue representing the Gregorian year needed to count from the start of Israel’s decree until the start of 49th year on June 15, 2016/17. Not the prophetic 360 day count needed in other Daniel prophesies. If you did the 360 day per year count you would fall short of Pentecost which is on June 4/5, 2017.

    7)Pentecost itself is the observance of the 49 days of the Omer before arriving at the 50th which is Pentecost. We are now likely in the 49th year from Israel’s decree while within the 50th year a jubilee, the 120th since creation.

    8)If the rapture happens on the “Last Trump” then Pentecost would be the Day because it’s the last feast day that blows the last trumpet!

    http://www.watchmansview.com/Revelation_12_Sign.html

    fair use for educational or discussion purposes

    #130576

    Mike Mc
    Participant

    Heather didn’t you have somewhere, where the Second coming was on the day of Atonement. Revelation 19:11-14.. and the Fall feast would be fulfilled after the Trib… Check out the Picture of the Moriah…

    http://www.theseasonofreturn.com/DOES_SCRIPTURE_SUPPORT_A_PENTECOST_RAPTURE_VER_1.docx.pdf

    ~

    Judgment of the Fruit of Trees

    Traditional Jewish belief holds that Pentecost is the day when the fruit of trees is judged in heaven. Christians throughout the Church Age have believed that the fruit of one’s life will be judged following the rapture. This, of course, is the picture given by the apostle Paul to the church at Corinth: “10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad” (II Cor. 5:10).

    The resurrection of Jesus as the Omer or offering of Firstfruits began a countdown to the completion of the body of Christ. The good fruit of the righteous will be reviewed, then will come the judgment of the depraved world.

    But there is more to add to this picture. Jewish families observe Pentecost by wearing bright and festive clothing. Homes are decorated with green plants and traditional foods of celebration are prepared.

    According to Hayyim Schauss, writing in The Jewish Festivals:

    “The custom of decorating the homes and synagogues with green plants is variously explained. One theory is that the day is marked in heaven as the day of judgment for the fruit of the trees.”

    Here is the theme of fruit-bearing, which points to the Judgment Seat of Christ following the rapture and resurrection. In Matthew 7:15-20, Jesus likened true versus false teaching to the fruit of trees:

    “15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

    Pentecost, the Festival Without a Date

    As mentioned earlier, Pentecost is called Shavuot (or Weeks), in the Hebrew. It is so named to reflect the nature of its dating. It always falls seven weeks plus one day after the offering of the Omer.

    Since it is based on counting the seven weeks following the Feast of Firstfruits, the date of Pentecost is fluid. Thus, when the Jewish calendar was still based upon visually marking the appearance of the new moon, Pentecost could fall on the fifth, sixth or seventh of Sivan. The final determination of the date would depend upon whether or not the months of Nisan and Iyar were full thirty-day months.

    To this day, if one calculates the date of Pentecost as actually instructed in the Bible, its precise timing is always something of a mystery. Symbolically then, it becomes a perfect model for the rapture, since its date is also beyond reckoning.

    According to author Hayyim Schauss, the date for Pentecost cannot be fixed. He calls it the “only Jewish festival for which there is no fixed date.” The Books of Moses do not state on which day of the month Pentecost is to be observed. It says only that it is to be celebrated fifty days after the offering of the Omer [Firstfruits], the first sheaf of the grain harvest, which was to be offered on “the morrow after the Sabbath,” as we have already seen in Leviticus 23:15-17.

    Following the destruction of the Second Temple in A.D. 70, it became physically impossible to commemorate either the Festival of Firstfruits or the waving of the loaves at Pentecost. The calendar date for Pentecost then became fixed at the sixth of Sivan … the date upon which it is remembered to this day.

    Here, the prophet Micah speaks as the voice of Israel in the latter days. The time is set at the end of fruit harvest – late April through early June – the season that begins with Passover and ends with Pentecost.

    The summer fruits have been “gathered,” or harvested. The Hebrew term asaph, means “to remove, or take away.” But one of its major meanings is, “to be gathered to one’s fathers at death.” This translation easily fits in the context of these verses. The good fruit of the righteous has been harvested and taken for inspection and storage. From Micah’s point of view, the friends of Israel have gone away.

    As we continue, Micah’s distress becomes more clear. He has a deep desire for the fruit that has been removed. And what is this fruit? Verse 2, tells us that it is the “good man,” who has “perished” from the earth. This fits perfectly with the idea of the judgment of the fruit of trees.

    “Perish” comes from the Hebrew verb avad, meaning, “to cause to vanish!” As the picture develops, it is easy to see that Micah’s vision perfectly describes the conditions that will prevail when righteous mankind is instantly transported from the earth at the catching-away of the church.

    The Mystery of Pentecost

    #130577
    MyWhiteStone
    MyWhiteStone
    Participant

    Wow! This thread was resurrected after fifteen days! March 30 until just now. I was looking for it when it passed out of sight.

    Not taking anyone’s word for it, and have looked at the arguments and found them sound to my satisfaction. And certainly my hopeful posture REALLY WANTS A SPRING RAPTURE!! There’s an honest bias!

    Thishful winking! :whistle: :yes: Yesss!!

    Thanks MikeMc for the URL just above.

    I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end He will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; I myself will see Him with my own eyes -- I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me! Job19:25-27



    #130578

    Mike Mc
    Participant

    8)If the rapture happens on the “Last Trump” then Pentecost would be the Day because it’s the last feast day that blows the last trumpet!

    “16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first” (I Thess. 4:16).

    In this verse, we are told of the “trump of God,” not a trumpet sounded by an angel.

    We will hear the Voice of our Redeemer calling us out and we will all all be Changed in a Nano second…

    ~

    #130580
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Participant

    Heather didn’t you have somewhere, where the Second coming was on the day of Atonement. Revelation 19:11-14.. and the Fall feast would be fulfilled after the Trib…

    In the past, I have speculated about that. It’s been a while since I’ve said anything to that effect, though.

    The Judgment of the Summer Fruit was my favorite piece of writing. It included much of what you stated above. But if the rapture occurs in the spring, a fall second coming makes no sense unless we insert a gap the Bible does neither talk about or support.

    So….

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #130583

    Mike Mc
    Participant

    I got Cha. That’s why it would make sense for a Spring to Spring… Nisan to Nisan because of the two different years of the Final Jubilee… 2023~2024…

    #130625

    Terry
    Participant

    As we continue, Micah’s distress becomes more clear. He has a deep desire for the fruit that has been removed. And what is this fruit? Verse 2, tells us that it is the “good man,” who has “perished” from the earth. This fits perfectly with the idea of the judgment of the fruit of trees.

    Even though I am a firm believer of a Spring Rapture, the only part in the Bible that makes me doubt a Spring Rapture, and think that a fall Rapture could be possible is Micah 7: 1,2. In Micah 7:1 it says: “Woe is me! for I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage:there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit.
    Then in verse 2 it says:” The good man is perished out of the earth:”. This seems to be indicating that the good man (the Christian), is perished out of the earth (Raptured), at the time of the gathering of the summer fruits, which I think is in September, seeming to indicate a September Rapture.
    Or is it indicating an October or November Rapture? Why I say October or November is because where it says: “as the grapegleanings of the vintage:there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit”. Seeming to indicate the time when hardly any grapes are left, not even a whole cluster, which is possibly why this person desired the firstripe fruit.

    But, believe me, I would rather believe in a Spring Rapture, not a Summer, or fall Rapture. A Spring Rapture makes more sense to me. Plus, I’ve found there to be more reasons for a Spring Rapture.

    To any of you, does it seem that Micah 7:1-2 is indicating a Summer or Fall Rapture? Or is it just me? Can you give me a different explaination about what this may mean? :unsure:

    #130632
    Heather R
    Heather R
    Participant

    Woe is me! for I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage:there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit.

    Figurative language used to express a dire situation. It regards the harvest because he’s comparing his situation to the end of it, when nothing is left — goodman perished out of the earth.

    He wants to go back to a time when there are firstripe fruits, which apparently mean good people on earth. If these times of the harvest are not just symbolic, you would want to go back to the time of the firstripe fruit, not the time of the grapegleanings, to establish when the goodman of the earth was still present.

    Not sure it relates to the rapture specifically, because this is Israel in view. It’s talking about conditions on earth during that time… goodman perished relates to no one to count on. If you continue reading in Micah 7, that becomes apparent. Amos 8 is also a good chapter to read about this.

    Romans1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    #130633
    MyWhiteStone
    MyWhiteStone
    Participant

    This seems to be indicating that the good man (the Christian), is perished out of the earth (Raptured), at the time of the gathering of the summer fruits, which I think is in September, seeming to indicate a September Rapture.

    Yeah, maybe though it could indicate the good man had already been Raptured by that time. That good man being gone a few months earlier would still be a reason for ongoing sorrow, no?

    “… is perished…” vs “…was Raptured…”

    What a tense situation! :whistle:

    I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end He will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; I myself will see Him with my own eyes -- I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me! Job19:25-27



    #130643

    Terry
    Participant

    Figurative language used to express a dire situation. It regards the harvest because he’s comparing his situation to the end of it, when nothing is left — goodman perished out of the earth.

    Very good explanation, Heather, makes perfect sense! Thank you for explaining that. :rose: :heart: I thought this may have been figurative language, indicating how someone felt when the good man is perished out of the earth, but I wasn’t sure, but now I am, thanks to you! 🙂

    Yeah, maybe though it could indicate the good man had already been Raptured by that time.

    I agree! That’s what I was thinking.

    That good man being gone a few months earlier would still be a reason for ongoing sorrow, no?

    That’s right! That makes sense! I don’t know if I thought of that! Everything you said made sense, thank you!

    What a tense situation!

    I’ll say! I sure wouldn’t want to be left on earth at that time.

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